raising kids/religion etc

[Claw75]

OK - here's a thing that's been bugging me.  My daughter is now 6, and her father and I share custody 50/50.  He was raised as a Methodist and I catholic, but both of us now class ourselves as atheists.  Over the last year or so my daughter has become more curious about reilgion, and she knows many of her extended family attend church and believe in God, but that neither myself or her dad do.  Although she goes to a non-denomiational school, they sing hymns and the like at assembly, and put on the obligatory nativity play every year.

Now, usually when I'm dealing with questions about god/jesus/church/religion I answer as factually as I can, usually along starting along the lines of 'some people believe....'.  What's starting to concern me a little bit is that she is becoming much more aware of her own mortality and asking questions about what happens after people die etc.  When I was a kid it was kind of nice to be reassured that we would go to heaven and meet up with our loved ones there.  I usually say something like 'it's like going to sleep and not waking up' and when she specifically asks about heaven I say that some people believe in it. 

Whilst I try to keep as factual as possible where god etc is concerned, I go to great lengths to keep alive her belief in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy etc and I'm kind of tempted sometimes to just go along with the God thing a bit while she's young, but somehow that seems different.

Anyway, a lot of old waffle in there - just wondered how other parents with no religious beliefs deal with this kind of thing?

[pokerfan]

unfortunately 6 is the age of unravelling,by that i mean the golden times of santa/tooth fairy are now over4/5 are simply the best 2 years with your kids in regard this area.Any older the worldly wise at school etc allways get to them and reveal the truth.As for God i would try to encourage the thought while not preaching until they make their own minds up.Im a Jedi btw lollllllllzz

[bolt pp]

father christmas and the toothfairy dont really precipitate a lifestyle choice later in life whereas it gets a bit dangerous placating a childs fears by just going along with whatevers easiest as you often believe what you're told when you're a kid and with the tooth fairy etc being things you can grow out of religion is not something that should be continued lightly with a child that isnt from parents that arnt completely into it.

I'd be more focused on having a talk with her about why she's thinking about this sort of stuff in the first place, i cant remember questioning my own mortality at this age so maybe she's getting this sort of stuff from other members of your/his family and if you're not comfortable with her being brought up like that and her dads the same then you can raise your concerns with that person whoever it maybe that you dont plan on bringing her up to be religious and you'd hope that they respect that.

If it gets a bit confrontational call em a bible bashing loonay and launch a flying headbutt IMO

I'd be honest with her about what you believe in(you can probably skip the being buried and eaten by maggots bit) but let her know that's what you believe and why you think it's important you do your best while your here and make the most of life now.

[totalise]

I'd keep up the "God thing" until it came out naturally through education etc.. she will likely be more equipped to understand it at that age, compared to trying to get her to understand the enormous ramifications of our own mortality at her current age.

[rex008]

I keep meaning to buy this book, but haven't got around to it. Looks like it might be useful though.

I'm ex-religious, now fairly evangelical atheist, and my problem is that even non-denomination schools seem to have their fair share of teachers who like to force their religion down kids' throats. And when a teacher is telling kids that 2+2 is 4 and that God made the earth, they don't know they should believe no1, but not no2. So my eldest lad (6) seems to constantly come out with rubbish that I just now plainly just tell him is wrong.

I don't think a child needs religion for any reason personally. Santa and tooth fairy definitely exist though. And yes, that may be hypocritical, but it takes a lot more to persuade some brainwashed child that God doesn't actually exist than it does for him to find out that Santa doesn't.

The death thing is especially tough, but I just try and be as factual as I can, while trying to be fairly gentle about it. I generally go into the process of decomposition, which is especially fascinating to a 6 year old boy and diverts him from the whole heaven thing . Not sure it would work on a girl though .

[Claw75]

I cant remember questioning my own mortality at this age

really?  I  know I did.  It's not something she bangs on about all the time or anything, but now and again she'll say something like she doesn't want me/her dad/her nan etc to die.  I usually deal with it by saying that hopefully it's something she won't have to deal with for a long, long time, and that's usually enough.  I just somehow wish I could just give her all the heaven stuff which I found quite reassuring when I was young, but neither her dad or I really don't want to go down that road as we're quite anti-religion.

My mum beleives in God and I've occasionally caught her saying stuff as if it's fact, and I remind her to point out to my daughter that it's what 'some people believe in' and not fact, but then I feel somehow like I'm being mean.  Having just been brought up to blindly believe this stuff it's really difficult to know how to handle it as I've got nothing to follow.

[Claw75]

I keep meaning to buy this book, but haven't got around to it. Looks like it might be useful though.

I'm ex-religious, now fairly evangelical atheist, and my problem is that even non-denomination schools seem to have their fair share of teachers who like to force their religion down kids' throats. And when a teacher is telling kids that 2+2 is 4 and that God made the earth, they don't know they should believe no1, but not no2. So my eldest lad (6) seems to constantly come out with rubbish that I just now plainly just tell him is wrong.

I don't think a child needs religion for any reason personally. Santa and tooth fairy definitely exist though. And yes, that may be hypocritical, but it takes a lot more to persuade some brainwashed child that God doesn't actually exist than it does for him to find out that Santa doesn't.

The death thing is especially tough, but I just try and be as factual as I can, while trying to be fairly gentle about it. I generally go into the process of decomposition, which is especially fascinating to a 6 year old boy and diverts him from the whole heaven thing . Not sure it would work on a girl though .

ah good - I'm not alone!  That book looks great - I'm going to order it now, thanks.  I've actually been quite surprised at the level of religious content in the education system.  I went to catholic school so got it all the time obviously, but presumed a non-demoninational school would be a lot more objective when it came to that sort of stuff.  I suppose at the end of the day britain is still a christian country.

hmm - I might leave the decomposition stuff to one side for now and just stick with the 'staying asleep' bit!

[celtic]

I don't think it really helps if you tell her that you don't believe in God etc as i'm sure most schools still go down the route of God/Jesus/Mary etc and telling her otherwise would prob only confuse her. I remember Holly asking me about death etc and assured her that it would be years and years yet before she had to worry about anyone dying (bearing in mind that 2 weeks seems like a lifetime for kids  of that age) especially when there is an event coming up. i wouldn't get too worried yet. Wait til she's 11 and thinks Zac Efron is cooler than Jesus and she is gonna be his Mary ffs. Then you will have something to worry about!!!

[Newmanseye]

Hmm i have a slmilar problem  when myself and my wife are not practicing any failth and we have liberal views o the whole organised religon thing, so whe my kids ocme home and we discuss what the have learned at school ( a faith school btw ) I explain how I see things, that way she has to assign her own objections to the subject matter.  I recall my Oldest daughter telling me how we were all created by god and came from the children of adam and eve, I had to expand on that and give her the aspect that evolution is probably ore to blame for our currnet physical attributes than some omnipresence.

There there  was the explaining of miracles and that the stuff she is taught comes from a book, a compendium of stories that cannot be confirmed beyond the Catholic church which is as good at keeping things secret as it is rattling off a hail mary.

my advice is give them the information and let them evaluate it Clare.

BTW Jesus is now a Magician and was soulstoned according to my daughter.

funny how kids are

[nirvana]

What real harm do people think can happen to a child being taught Christianity as fact in a C of E (almost secular) kind of way ?

The worse that can happen is ...............................................................

Plenty of time to challenge belief systems for oneself later in life (as you have Claire). Children get a zillion inputs, many that conflict, and given time and a loving envirnoment I think they figure this stuff out for themselves quite easily when they're ready.

[thetank]

What real harm do people think can happen to a child being taught Christianity as fact in a C of E (almost secular) kind of way ?

The worse that can happen is ...............................................................

Plenty of time to challenge belief systems for oneself later in life (as you have Claire). Children get a zillion inputs, many that conflict, and given time and a loving envirnoment I think they figure this stuff out for themselves quite easily when they're ready.

This

[littlemissC]

I keep meaning to buy this book, but haven't got around to it. Looks like it might be useful though.

I'm ex-religious, now fairly evangelical atheist, and my problem is that even non-denomination schools seem to have their fair share of teachers who like to force their religion down kids' throats. And when a teacher is telling kids that 2+2 is 4 and that God made the earth, they don't know they should believe no1, but not no2. So my eldest lad (6) seems to constantly come out with rubbish that I just now plainly just tell him is wrong.

I don't think a child needs religion for any reason personally. Santa and tooth fairy definitely exist though. And yes, that may be hypocritical, but it takes a lot more to persuade some brainwashed child that God doesn't actually exist than it does for him to find out that Santa doesn't.

The death thing is especially tough, but I just try and be as factual as I can, while trying to be fairly gentle about it. I generally go into the process of decomposition, which is especially fascinating to a 6 year old boy and diverts him from the whole heaven thing . Not sure it would work on a girl though .

ah good - I'm not alone!  That book looks great - I'm going to order it now, thanks.  I've actually been quite surprised at the level of religious content in the education system.  I went to catholic school so got it all the time obviously, but presumed a non-demoninational school would be a lot more objective when it came to that sort of stuff.  I suppose at the end of the day britain is still a christian country.

hmm - I might leave the decomposition stuff to one side for now and just stick with the 'staying asleep' bit!

i was shocked with how much religion studies Lily did around christmas time this year and all based on the christian beliefs.Lily goes to a school with so many children with different religions that i know there were at least 4 complaints in her class alone.they were told its the curriculum so they had no choice.
i thought that schools would be teaching children that in this world people believe in lots of different religions.

[rex008]

What real harm do people think can happen to a child being taught Christianity as fact in a C of E (almost secular) kind of way ?

The worse that can happen is ...............................................................

Plenty of time to challenge belief systems for oneself later in life (as you have Claire). Children get a zillion inputs, many that conflict, and given time and a loving envirnoment I think they figure this stuff out for themselves quite easily when they're ready.

I have to say, with respect, I couldn't disagree more. "God exists, Jesus came back from the dead, God created the sun and the earth and the people, and all the animals. Oh, and all the bacteria and viruses. He sends natural disasters to make sure we still have faith in him. It's his way of testing us.". And you think there is no harm in telling a child that as if it was fact? You end up with kids coming out with (and this is a direct quote from my 6 year old) - "When the sun goes out, God can just make a new one". Where do you start unravelling rubbish like that? If a teacher tells a child something, you hope the child pretty much takes it in no question at this age, otherwise it would take a long time to educate them. I would hope that a teacher would never lie to a child. Ever. And yet some do, and get away with it. Criminal offense, imho. A child working out that santa or the tooth fairy don't exist is a good thing - it shows they have the ability to question, to look at evidence, to deduce something. How do they do that with God? There's no evidence to look at, but plenty of people who will tell them that there is. People who deny centuries of rigorous scientific argument, testing and discussion because they, personally, don't understand it and can't believe it's possible (and yes, I'm mostly talking about evolution here).

The worst that can happen is ... you end up with a child who doesn't know how to work things out for themselves, who is emotionally stunted, who thinks that the only things that matter are written in a generally extremely nasty book written 4000-1600 years ago, who is intolerant and closed-minded. I could go on ranting, but I think that's enough for now .

Edit: No, I'm going to carry on.
Obviously, the absolute worst thing that could happen is that your child is left vulnerable to the kind of people who will tell them that to fly a plane into a building full of people will bring them eternal paradise. Or to a cult where they are told they are not allowed to have any contact with their family because it will taint them.

How is it that a child can work out there is no santa by age 6-8, but some never work out that God is a lie made up to control them?

[Graham C]

In Heather's class they learn about all sorts of religions, they did Diwali not long ago and they've done other things in the past and I think they have other festivals coming up.  (she's only been there since Sept so not 100% sure) They get quite into it and it looks great fun.   I was quite surprised as it's not that diverse culture round here but they take lots into consideration which is fantastic and a great opportunity for the kds to be more aware than we ever were at school.

As for our beliefs, both Mrs Silo and I are non relgious, in fact, I'd rather not have anything to do with it.  The Mother-in-Law is well in to being Christian and the Mrs is more into it than me, but no pressure is put on our daughter.  She asks all the questions and she loves some of the stories, but we wouldn't try and sway her either way but if she decides that she wants something else in her life later on, then it's up to her.  I expect more questions to be asked as she gets a bit older, but at the moment she loves Baby Jesus because he's a baby so that's all good

[Newmanseye]

I keep meaning to buy this book, but haven't got around to it. Looks like it might be useful though.

I'm ex-religious, now fairly evangelical atheist, and my problem is that even non-denomination schools seem to have their fair share of teachers who like to force their religion down kids' throats. And when a teacher is telling kids that 2+2 is 4 and that God made the earth, they don't know they should believe no1, but not no2. So my eldest lad (6) seems to constantly come out with rubbish that I just now plainly just tell him is wrong.

I don't think a child needs religion for any reason personally. Santa and tooth fairy definitely exist though. And yes, that may be hypocritical, but it takes a lot more to persuade some brainwashed child that God doesn't actually exist than it does for him to find out that Santa doesn't.

The death thing is especially tough, but I just try and be as factual as I can, while trying to be fairly gentle about it. I generally go into the process of decomposition, which is especially fascinating to a 6 year old boy and diverts him from the whole heaven thing . Not sure it would work on a girl though .

ah good - I'm not alone!  That book looks great - I'm going to order it now, thanks.  I've actually been quite surprised at the level of religious content in the education system.  I went to catholic school so got it all the time obviously, but presumed a non-demoninational school would be a lot more objective when it came to that sort of stuff.  I suppose at the end of the day britain is still a christian country.

hmm - I might leave the decomposition stuff to one side for now and just stick with the 'staying asleep' bit!

i was shocked with how much religion studies Lily did around christmas time this year and all based on the christian beliefs.Lily goes to a school with so many children with different religions that i know there were at least 4 complaints in her class alone.they were told its the curriculum so they had no choice.
i thought that schools would be teaching children that in this world people believe in lots of different religions.

I agree with you missc, however this country is predominantly christian and i think that filters in to our school network, I am going to use a quote to illustrate the way i believe some of the "old hats" think

    Joseph Palmi: We Italians, we got our families and we got the church. The Irish, they have the homeland. The Jews, their traditions. Even the Niggers, they got their music. What about you people Mr. Carlson, what do you have?
    Edward: The United States of America, the rest of you are just visiting.

from the good shepherd, its a narrow point of view but one i think is reflected in this country a lot hence the lack of momentum to embrace other cultures