Dry side pot dynamics

[TightEnd]

1. 4 tables are left

blinds are 200-400

In mid position a newly badbeated shortstack pushes for 1400

Hero on button playing 19,000 calls with 

Small blind playing 12,000 calls

Big blind playing 30,000, priced in with most hands you'd think, calls

So we see a flop of 

Checked to Hero

Should Hero bet here into a dry side pot?



2. Hero bets 2,500

BB c/r to 6,500

Not in the plan. Problem is BB has a habit of overplaying his hands post flop.

Given that you have bet to shut the hand down thinking you'd do so, as betting into a dry sidepot conveys mucho strength, what now?

[thetank]

Betting into dry pot doesn't convey all that much strength when eliminating the all-in player doesn't make too much difference (ie. it's not the bubble).

There's plenty reason to bet 2nd or even 3rd pair there when it's checked to you. (Even if you are in a bubble situation, if your stack is big enough that you're relatively 'safe', there's still plenty reason to bet at the pot and get heads up against all-in player with 3 to 1 odds.)

The c/r-ing is another thing entirely though. I'd probably be passing to the c/r in this hand, BB had chips and they have da power. wp BB

[MANTIS01]

Should Hero bet here into a dry side pot?

1. Yep, you're damn skippy you should. Raising pre would have been nice vs tilting kamikaze ss, but as it is deffo bet. Trapping and waiting to get beat are two very different things, and if you check you must be doing one of the two. If anybody says anything about the dry pot with 4 tables left a wet board and tp then please laugh.

2. Shove vs an over-playing oppo imo. If he shows 2-pair tis why you shoud raise pre because it has a habit of costing you much more if you don't.

[MC]

You have to ask him whether:

A) He knows what's he's doing
B) He doesn't know what he's doing

If he knows what he's doing, you should fold, cos to make this raise he has to have 2 pair or better

If he doesn't know what he's doing, I'd be reluctant to fold, cos donkeys don't understand the dry-side pot situation and he could easily have a flush draw/worse King or something.


FWIW I think you should have min raised pre flop to isolate...

I think your bet with KQ was right in this situation. If you are saying he overplays hands and could fall into category B, you should probably shove here. You're only really losing to K9 and K3, but beating a reasonable amount of hands he could have.

But safe option if you aren't sure of your read of the player is to pass. Can't help thinking he has KJ here though!

[EvilPie]

His shove for 1400 is barely more than a standard 3 x raise and I think you should be re raising with your offering.

SB and BB are pretty much priced in given their stacks so you need to let them know that you have a proper hand pre flop.

Up against the 2 priced in blinds I'm keeping this pot small. You've got position so use it to your advantage. By betting you're inviting the cr with a hand that you may struggle to defend with.

I don't like the situation you're in now and would be tempted to just give up on the 3900 already invested and have a 5 minute break to lick my wounds.

If you call you're going to be facing an all in pretty soon with a hand that can so easily be overplayed. I think you need to get out now.

[noble1]

as played

Up against the 2 priced in blinds I'm keeping this pot small. You've got position so use it to your advantage. By betting you're inviting the cr with a hand that you may struggle to defend with.

this !!

maybe if you bet 4000 it might stop a check raise,but if you are c/r you'll still be in the same predicament but at least with a stronger approach it should take a strong hand to re-raise you..

His shove for 1400 is barely more than a standard 3 x raise and I think you should be re raising with your offering.

imo this would be the best way to play it considering your position and the fact you do not want to price in the blinds with any old filth...

as played and 15100 behind i'd fold

[EvilPie]

Given that you have bet to shut the hand down thinking you'd do so, as betting into a dry sidepot conveys mucho strength, what now?

Whilst this may be true at times it is very dangerous. You are essentially bluffing because if he raises you will pass as he must have something huge to raise your "mucho strength" bet.

Also by betting in to this dry side pot you have created a wet side pot which you have to expect someone to compete over.

[gatso]

betting into a dry sidepot conveys mucho strength

what makes you say that? you've attached way too much importance to this concept here, the fact that there's a dry side pot matters not a jot in this hand unless there's some bubble approaching that you've not mentioned.

and as everyone else says, please 3b this pre

[TightEnd]

thank you, yes I clearly got the concept wrong

and 3b pre.


live and learn

[noble1]

i have just been mulling over what you said about dry side pot concepts/dynamics tightend and your bet and villains are ok to do when there are many players left and in this case, eliminating a player has almost no value whatsoever...
So when players bet at this stage in the hope it conveys mucho strength  a lot of players will not respect it...

When it is on the bubble and we have the same scenario then yes the bet is viewed as strength as the elimination of the player all in is important...

thats my thoughts on it anyhows 
 

[MANTIS01]

i have just been mulling over what you said about dry side pot concepts/dynamics tightend and your bet and villains are ok to do when there are many players left and in this case, eliminating a player has almost no value whatsoever...
So when players bet at this stage in the hope it conveys mucho strength  a lot of players will not respect it...

When it is on the bubble and we have the same scenario then yes the bet is viewed as strength as the elimination of the player all in is important...

thats my thoughts on it anyhows 
 

Agreed. Also the guy isn't the best player according to Tighty so is he tuned into dry sidepot dynamics at all? TightEnd might think betting into the dry sidepot conveys much strength but does this guy think it does? He could be c-raising with lots of decent k's imo.

[thetank]

I blame the Dean

[MANTIS01]

Given that you have bet to shut the hand down thinking you'd do so, as betting into a dry sidepot conveys mucho strength, what now?

One further point about that statement Rich. Let's say you do believe betting into a dry sidepot conveys great strength...you gotta ask yourself what hand the BB is checking with? In these all-in situations, rightly or wrongly, people tend to have this habit of checking rather than betting. You notice this too and this is where your theory that you must be strong if you bet comes from. So if this is a truth why would the BB check, expecting a bet to come in, in order that he may c-raise?? This makes no sense, because a bet coming in is pretty unlikely. Not only does the situation suggest checking is likely, but you are a conservative player, and you didn't raise pre. So really nothing about the set-up is gonna get this guy thinking a bet is coming if he checks. And how often do you really get these great strength hands that enable you to bet here? So If the guy thinks a bet is unlikely and sees the drawing board in front of him surely he bets a hand like 2 pair? It's just too dangerous not to. I reckon it's just a spaz reaction to hitting the king and he is over-playing again. Anyway, what happened?

[TightEnd]

well obviously I cocked the hand up. That much is obvious from me needing to post it

I bet, he c/raised and I pondered

I knew he could be overplaying from past history, and I knew he wasn't fundamentally an aware/strong player.

I folded despite this, not trusting my read in part because at the time greatly over-estimating the importance/conveyance of strength of my bet into a dry sidepot (so he knows this he must have a hand thats beating me went the inspired logic, sigh) at this point in the comp as everyone has usefully pointed out to me

So Mr BB takes my dead money/side pot and flips  , and scoops verus the shortstack

I am chuntering away to myself at this point, berating my own play, but clearly not quite sotto voce enough.

The BB thinks I am criticising him and in the middle of the next hand after some silence looks at me and pipes up "well I had the flush draw as well"

Marvellous.

[totalise]

betting into a dry sidepot conveys mucho strength

what makes you say that? you've attached way too much importance to this concept here, the fact that there's a dry side pot matters not a jot in this hand unless there's some bubble approaching that you've not mentioned.

and as everyone else says, please 3b this pre

dry side pots clearly matter more than "not a jot" for obvious reasons. They probably dont matter as much as tighty is assuming, but in spots like this, they defo matter to some extent.