Intresting spot from stars 100f 4 handed

[thetank]

Hero obv never calls a missed draw and 4-5-6 isn't obviously in his calling range either so betting the K seems rather pointless.

What is Hero has a small pocket pair?

[MANTIS01]

Hero obv never calls a missed draw and 4-5-6 isn't obviously in his calling range either so betting the K seems rather pointless.

What is Hero has a small pocket pair?

Well, a number of players are advising c-folding the flop after a failed set-mine. So villain is gonna have to believe hero doesn't raise pre and then goes on to c-call 3 bullets with a small pp in order to v-bet a K...and that's a pretty funky story to believe.

[GreekStein]

Trigg's analysis of this hand and situation is perfect imo.

Other than just setmining and then folding I don't mind the way you played the hand. I call river too.

[thetank]

If I'm villain, I still value bet that river if I bink a King.

If Hero has monster and wants to check call me on two streets, and check-raise the river so be it. I doubt this happens too often though, as hero will know I'm probably keen to check behind with Ace high on the river, and so will value bet his monster on the river or raise an earlier street.

Hero might also call with ace high, or have caught a pair of 5's or 6's (or both!) on the flop.
Not value betting a paired King would be a mistake imo.

[MANTIS01]

For hero to v-bet a monster on the river he's gonna have to think villain has a hand that calls that v-bet...and cos 4-5-6 isn't in the perceived range of villain that doesn't appear to be a likely scenario. Much better for hero to check to the LAG who double barrels and allow him to bluff off more chips imo.

[Newmanseye]

hmm,  strange one,  Whats range did you have him on James?

Why not raise his turn bet ?  you know you are calling the river hence a turn raise may be cheaper on the stack and give you the confirmation of where you are in the hand.

we are not beating much, and unless i was in one of my " fuck you " moods i probably would have folded on the flop.

What do you thing your edge is against this group of opponents? 

did he take some timbe before his riverbet?

how confident were you with the call?

[thetank]

For hero to v-bet a monster on the river he's gonna have to think villain has a hand that calls that v-bet...and cos 4-5-6 isn't in the perceived range of villain that doesn't appear to be a likely scenario. Much better for hero to check to the LAG who double barrels and allow him to bluff off more chips imo.

That's why if I have monster in heroe's position I usually raise earlier street.

All the more reason for villain to value bet his King on river. With heroes line, monster is not likely.

[thetank]

Why not raise his turn bet ?  you know you are calling the river hence a turn raise may be cheaper on the stack and give you the confirmation of where you are in the hand.

When his hand is good with the original line, he gets the extra bet. When his hand is good with the turn raise, he wins nothing extra. Only way he'll get a call on the turn is if he's beat.

He can spend the same number of chips with his line, and when you "find out where you are in the hand" by means of a showdown, the information is usually much more reliable.

Folding and calling are the only real choices you can take on the turn. Raising "to find out where you are" is nearly always a bad play and it certainly would be in this spot.

Never raise for information, raise for chips.

[MANTIS01]

Do you think it really is a mistake to not v-bet the King tank? I mean a little lost value when you ain't absolutely sure you're good vs taking a big hit to your tourney position if you're wrong seems marginal to me. If his king's good villain wins a nice pot checking behind...but if he bets hero must find a hand to call...which is iffy...and if he faces a c-raise he will be in a world of pain. With the two shorties in play not v-betting only the one binked pair vs the only guy who can ruin your tourney is perfectly ok imo. It's easier to v-bet the king on villain's behalf when we know we're holding 2-2...although i must admit it is entirley possible that you would be correct to do so.

[Newmanseye]

Why not raise his turn bet ?  you know you are calling the river hence a turn raise may be cheaper on the stack and give you the confirmation of where you are in the hand.

When his hand is good with the original line, he gets the extra bet. When his hand is good with the turn raise, he wins nothing extra. Only way he'll get a call on the turn is if he's beat.

He can spend the same number of chips with his line, and when you "find out where you are in the hand" by means of a showdown, the information is usually much more reliable.

Folding and calling are the only real choices you can take on the turn. Raising "to find out where you are" is nearly always a bad play and it certainly would be in this spot.

Never raise for information, raise for chips.

Thants not really what i was getting at Tank, this is a weak holding, and whilst we may win an extra bet IF we are good, why not win a slightly smaller bet incase wer are in a bad spot here. no if we raise the turn, it has the same risk but i would say the rewards are more balanced as we could make a better hand fold.


If we get reraise we know its a no fly zone anyways

[pokerfan]

hmm,  strange one,  Whats range did you have him on James?isnt that obv given the action?

Why not raise his turn bet ?  you know you are calling the river hence a turn raise may be cheaper on the stack and give you the confirmation of where you are in the hand.im setting him up to bluff the river

we are not beating much, and unless i was in one of my " fuck you " moods i probably would have folded on the flop.then you are missing tons of ev

What do you thing your edge is against this group of opponents?obv im a huge overdog

did he take some timbe before his riverbet?i made the above 1 up obv

how confident were you with the call?supremely

[thetank]

Do you think it really is a mistake to not v-bet the King tank? I mean a little lost value when you ain't absolutely sure you're good vs taking a big hit to your tourney position if you're wrong seems marginal to me. If his king's good villain wins a nice pot checking behind...but if he bets hero must find a hand to call...which is iffy...and if he faces a c-raise he will be in a world of pain. With the two shorties in play not v-betting only the one binked pair vs the only guy who can ruin your tourney is perfectly ok imo. It's easier to v-bet the king on villain's behalf when we know we're holding 2-2...although i must admit it is entirley possible that you would be correct to do so.

Yes I do.

A good player won't often play trips or a straight the hand the way hero played this hand and so I think we're getting check raised on the river very rarely.
Re. tourney position, as chip leader and relatively deep, we should be using our stack to take advantage of edges and making value bets wherever value bets are profitable.
We're not going to be among the shorties and still going to have a playable stack if we're wrong.

[KarmaDope]

Just to divert slightly Flushy, what were your thoughts on "Aryamehr"? I've faced him a few times in the cheap stars Deepstack and wasn't impressed with his play at all so was very surprised to see him at the FT here.

[Newmanseye]

• hmm,  strange one,  Whats range did you have him on James?isnt that obv given the action?
  
  Why not raise his turn bet ?  you know you are calling the river hence a turn raise may be cheaper on the stack and give you the confirmation of where you are in the hand.im setting him up to bluff the river
  
  we are not beating much, and unless i was in one of my " fuck you " moods i probably would have folded on the flop.then you are missing tons of ev
  
  What do you thing your edge is against this group of opponents?obv im a huge overdog
  
  did he take some timbe before his riverbet?i made the above 1 up obv
  
  how confident were you with the call?supremely

point 1, i asked what range James had the opponent on, not what i think he thinks.

point 2, setting him up to bluff the river?  obv not as it was a flat call on the river, bluff calling with no more action is a good thing now?

point 3, possibly missing lots of EV but thats why poker has lots of different styles, it keeps the game interesting.

Point4, From the info in the OP i am taking this as a real played out hand. not made up

Point 5, if we are supremely confident why not reraise for stacks?

[thetank]

Point 5, if we are supremely confident why not reraise for stacks?

Being supremely confident that the call is correct is not the same as being supremely confident that our hand is going to win.