Simple hand, but did i allow the pot to get out of control

[outragous76]

Tim Blake is in the forum........................

you gonna give your thoughts?

[T8MML]

interesting topic - yes it is I. Please enlighten this old rock as to what a "nit" is?

Is it some new internet poker term like "insta" "snap" or is it something that in my day - and when I had hair - it was something that you wanted out of it. Comments about being a rock are probably about right but even some of us old fkers have a bit of flair and not just in the bottom of our trousers!

Needless to say the "rock" got busted later playing a very flairey KK v AA and AA lol

As for a nit - well Bulldozer lets just say I aint done too bad since starting live four years ago

[BulldozerD]

As for a nit - well Bulldozer lets just say I aint done too bad since starting live four years ago

haha it wasn't meant as anything derogatory, it basically means you are very selective with starting hands.

You won't know me but have had you on my table in the £330 at DTD and stuff a few times and my observations were that you were very selective and i can't see you re-re-raising (4betting) with anything other than aces or kings

is that better?

i know you have done pretty well for yourself

[outragous76]

weeeeeeeeeee - he posts

Tim - i dont think people are being critical - but yes a nit is a rock - call it what you like - certainly in my view you are tight early - but then that is a fairly well accepted good strategy i think!

but do you ever do it with less than KK in level 1? (not sure we will get a straight answer)

also  - do you change you game up between live and online?

[George2Loose]

I really hate peeling to a 4 bet with AK

I hate 5 bet bluffing too

In order:

1) Peel
2) Fold to 4 bet

[outragous76]

I really hate peeling to a 4 bet with AK

I hate 5 bet bluffing too

In order:

1) Peel
2) Fold to 4 bet

not strictly a bluff - you might get a fold

[MANTIS01]

I don't know if it's me but I still have abs no fecking clue what this guy had. Anyway, 3-betting A-K on the button is a play that is above criticism at 25/50, anybody who says different is being stupid. Flatting 150 and inviting the blinds into a multi-way pot is not a better strategy than 3-betting a mid pos open at this level, and I don't care how tight the opener is. Also, all the emphasis is on the opener's image but what about your own image? If this experienced player perceives the button is LAG then calling the 4-bet is perfectly acceptable. If you're worried about playing premium hands in position you're gonna get raised out of every pot you play in this game.

[T8MML]

No offence taken - honest - anyone who knows me well knows I am probably the easiest going person in the world - until the Missus is on one. In my day "during the war" a nit was a derogatory name for an idiot - tikay will verify that as my dad -  sorry for any confusion.

As for only playing AA and KK in the first level Sunny Chatta said to me over dinner at Walsall GUKPT that he wishes he had my table presence because he said "you get away with murder - I know you are at it"

I rest my case lol.

As for online and live - generally i dont drink live!
 
gl at the tables  guys and very unlucky on saturday Stuart

[gatso]

I really hate peeling to a 4 bet with AK

I hate 5 bet bluffing too

In order:

1) Peel
2) Fold to 4 bet

not strictly a bluff - you might get a fold

was this a serious post?

[outragous76]

I really hate peeling to a 4 bet with AK

I hate 5 bet bluffing too

In order:

1) Peel
2) Fold to 4 bet

not strictly a bluff - you might get a fold

was this a serious post?

yes - what would you do if you are the villain and had got funky with JJ or had QQ? -  you overjam the 5 bet? - i think not

[gatso]

I really hate peeling to a 4 bet with AK

I hate 5 bet bluffing too

In order:

1) Peel
2) Fold to 4 bet

not strictly a bluff - you might get a fold

was this a serious post?

yes - what would you do if you are the villain and had got funky with JJ or had QQ? -  you overjam the 5 bet? - i think not

whether you are bluffing or not is not results dependent. a bluff doesn't become a non-bluff just because oppo folds

[outragous76]

I really hate peeling to a 4 bet with AK

I hate 5 bet bluffing too

In order:

1) Peel
2) Fold to 4 bet

not strictly a bluff - you might get a fold

was this a serious post?

yes - what would you do if you are the villain and had got funky with JJ or had QQ? -  you overjam the 5 bet? - i think not

whether you are bluffing or not is not results dependent. a bluff doesn't become a non-bluff just because oppo folds

i see where you are coming from - in which case it is a value raise!

i just dont think there are that many players out there that are 6 betting with air (especially Tim Blake), and therefore you define their hand. In this instance the hero flats and catches the card he 'wants to see'! - costing him more post flop.

At least with the 5 bet, (although yes i am folding to a re ship - thereby you call it s bluff), you find out where you are. I am going to refrain from using the term betting for information because i know i will get flamed.

I think the play will save 'car crashes' in the long run! I had this exact same situation against Nicky Byrne in the Irish Deepstacks in Feb and we discussed it afterwards (he had the AK and 5 bet folded). I dont think it is that bad, when there is so much play left.

[George2Loose]

so we can 5 bet with air frequently early against accomplished TAGS knowing they can only call with AA or KK?

[MANTIS01]

I think 5-betting pre would be ridiculous. There's too much focus on the pre-flop play in this hand anyway. You can't argue with 3-betting the A-K, that's a given. Calling the 4-bet from an experienced player is also fine, especially if you're the type of player who looks like you want to take charge of the game and play your button strongly. And I would imagine Stuart isn't overly shy on the button. If the opener has table prescence and thinks the button doesn't need to be strong that extra 600 or whatever he 4-bets buys him a lot of credit for later in the hand.....He must have A-A right?......so actually believing such a player can only have A-A is pretty dumb.

Anyway, the pre-flop action isn't the problem in this hand. Yes, Stuart hits his king but that doesn't mean he needs to bet it after villain checks. That is when the pot starts getting out of control and that is where the focus should be in this hand. That problem isn't solved by 5-betting A-K at 25/50.

[George2Loose]

I think calling the 4 bet- even with position, is a mistake.