Simple hand, but did i allow the pot to get out of control

[BigAdz]

I think Tim Blake is the best player in the world

And he doesnt have nits

[T8MML]

I think Tim Blake is the best player in the world

And he doesnt have nits

Thank you for that Adam - please feel free to sleep with my wife again! 

[T8MML]

Good point about the value bet on the end Stuart - much as I posted earlier!

Thanks for the tip on next time - I will be looking out for the fast played set!

Gl at the tables

[EvilPie]

To be honest Stu when you posted this thread as "Did I allow the pot to get out of control" I was a bit confused.

I think you got away really cheap having kept half your stack. I probably go bust here once I've called and hit a king.

I think Tim's played it very cautiously and that's allowed you to get off lightly. You were lucky you were in position otherwise I think you stack off.

I'd be interested to know how you'd have played the hand if you had a small pair and had hit your set?

Obviously you'd bet the river but would you have done anything different on the turn or flop that may have let Tim get away from his AA?

The thing you need to learn from this hand is not only how to minimise your loss with the hand you had but also how to stack off your oppo when you have out flopped him.

[StuartHopkin]

To be honest Stu when you posted this thread as "Did I allow the pot to get out of control" I was a bit confused.

I think you got away really cheap having kept half your stack. I probably go bust here once I've called and hit a king.

I think Tim's played it very cautiously and that's allowed you to get off lightly. You were lucky you were in position otherwise I think you stack off.

I'd be interested to know how you'd have played the hand if you had a small pair and had hit your set?

Obviously you'd bet the river but would you have done anything different on the turn or flop that may have let Tim get away from his AA?

The thing you need to learn from this hand is not only how to minimise your loss with the hand you had but also how to stack off your oppo when you have out flopped him.

I just thought playing a 9k flop pot with TPTK was ridic in level one.

As stated I dont think he gets any more from me.
Easy to say now obv, and it obv makes the call of the reraise even worse, but I was done with the hand, i knew I had made a mess.

Not sure if I lose as much to be honest if im out of position, I probably check/call every street?

If I hit my set? I still bet the flop, I still flat call the re-raise, when he checks the turn I probably shove?

I think the whole thing proves I sometimes dont think about what Im doing at all when Im playing, even in a bigger comp, but especially when Ive been out the night before. As your sis said, it showed 

[titaniumbean]

Approaching the end of Level 1 25/50, everyone has roughly the 10k they started with.

Tim Blake makes it 150 from MP
I find    on the button and make it 425
He now makes it 1100

I assume the next step is pretty straight forward but would like to see if any opinions here differ................

Hi Stuart, I read the OP and had a whole load of thoughts then read onwards and some of my questions were answered but I don't want to just pot my results orientated summary thoughts.

Fwiw I don't know who TB is, have never heard of him and on my first read through I had no read, considering that you didn't snap fold preflop I assumed initially that by you knowing his name he would be younger and therefore capable of 4 bet bluffing (esp if he is more of an online cash player who just understands how horrible it is being 4 bet that early). Initially against a younger player however spewy it may be I don't think calling is too bad though I wouldn't bet the flop.

Once I read through the posts I saw the picture of who it was and I at least recognised him though I have no information on how he plays. Yet i'll be honest he's not 18-25 so I think it's very very safe to assume he is not light here so we should just fold to the 4 bet, I don't though think that the 3 bet itself is bad. Three betting in position is so powerful and there are alot of worse hands that he can call with or at least mid pairs etc which though are ahead we can move him off of pretty easily depending on board texture.

I think you then go on to say that you bet call the flop I think? And I think you've got to bet fold the flop if you do bet.  No offence to Timl88 in any way, but people who have played as often as he has live are not going to be making moves for 30-50% of their stack in the first level they have alot more patience than people like me

[EvilPie]

Approaching the end of Level 1 25/50, everyone has roughly the 10k they started with.

Tim Blake makes it 150 from MP
I find    on the button and make it 425
He now makes it 1100

I assume the next step is pretty straight forward but would like to see if any opinions here differ................

Hi Stuart, I read the OP and had a whole load of thoughts then read onwards and some of my questions were answered but I don't want to just pot my results orientated summary thoughts.

Fwiw I don't know who TB is, have never heard of him and on my first read through I had no read, considering that you didn't snap fold preflop I assumed initially that by you knowing his name he would be younger and therefore capable of 4 bet bluffing (esp if he is more of an online cash player who just understands how horrible it is being 4 bet that early). Initially against a younger player however spewy it may be I don't think calling is too bad though I wouldn't bet the flop.

Once I read through the posts I saw the picture of who it was and I at least recognised him though I have no information on how he plays. Yet i'll be honest he's not 18-25 so I think it's very very safe to assume he is not light here so we should just fold to the 4 bet, I don't though think that the 3 bet itself is bad. Three betting in position is so powerful and there are alot of worse hands that he can call with or at least mid pairs etc which though are ahead we can move him off of pretty easily depending on board texture.

I think you then go on to say that you bet call the flop I think? And I think you've got to bet fold the flop if you do bet.  No offence to Timl88 in any way, but people who have played as often as he has live are not going to be making moves for 30-50% of their stack in the first level they have alot more patience than people like me

Is this a joke?

Do you mean that every time someone who looks over 25 4 bets we have to fold because they can only have 1 of 2 hands? Also if they're under 25 we should flat because they could be light?

I don't think I've ever heard anything so ridiculous.

[Longy]

Approaching the end of Level 1 25/50, everyone has roughly the 10k they started with.

Tim Blake makes it 150 from MP
I find    on the button and make it 425
He now makes it 1100

I assume the next step is pretty straight forward but would like to see if any opinions here differ................

Hi Stuart, I read the OP and had a whole load of thoughts then read onwards and some of my questions were answered but I don't want to just pot my results orientated summary thoughts.

Fwiw I don't know who TB is, have never heard of him and on my first read through I had no read, considering that you didn't snap fold preflop I assumed initially that by you knowing his name he would be younger and therefore capable of 4 bet bluffing (esp if he is more of an online cash player who just understands how horrible it is being 4 bet that early). Initially against a younger player however spewy it may be I don't think calling is too bad though I wouldn't bet the flop.

Once I read through the posts I saw the picture of who it was and I at least recognised him though I have no information on how he plays. Yet i'll be honest he's not 18-25 so I think it's very very safe to assume he is not light here so we should just fold to the 4 bet, I don't though think that the 3 bet itself is bad. Three betting in position is so powerful and there are alot of worse hands that he can call with or at least mid pairs etc which though are ahead we can move him off of pretty easily depending on board texture.

I think you then go on to say that you bet call the flop I think? And I think you've got to bet fold the flop if you do bet.  No offence to Timl88 in any way, but people who have played as often as he has live are not going to be making moves for 30-50% of their stack in the first level they have alot more patience than people like me

Is this a joke?

Do you mean that every time someone who looks over 25 4 bets we have to fold because they can only have 1 of 2 hands? Also if they're under 25 we should flat because they could be light?

I don't think I've ever heard anything so ridiculous.

+1

I think you extend that range to 18-30, as you may misjudge how old someone really is.

[EvilPie]

Approaching the end of Level 1 25/50, everyone has roughly the 10k they started with.

Tim Blake makes it 150 from MP
I find    on the button and make it 425
He now makes it 1100

I assume the next step is pretty straight forward but would like to see if any opinions here differ................

Hi Stuart, I read the OP and had a whole load of thoughts then read onwards and some of my questions were answered but I don't want to just pot my results orientated summary thoughts.

Fwiw I don't know who TB is, have never heard of him and on my first read through I had no read, considering that you didn't snap fold preflop I assumed initially that by you knowing his name he would be younger and therefore capable of 4 bet bluffing (esp if he is more of an online cash player who just understands how horrible it is being 4 bet that early). Initially against a younger player however spewy it may be I don't think calling is too bad though I wouldn't bet the flop.

Once I read through the posts I saw the picture of who it was and I at least recognised him though I have no information on how he plays. Yet i'll be honest he's not 18-25 so I think it's very very safe to assume he is not light here so we should just fold to the 4 bet, I don't though think that the 3 bet itself is bad. Three betting in position is so powerful and there are alot of worse hands that he can call with or at least mid pairs etc which though are ahead we can move him off of pretty easily depending on board texture.

I think you then go on to say that you bet call the flop I think? And I think you've got to bet fold the flop if you do bet.  No offence to Timl88 in any way, but people who have played as often as he has live are not going to be making moves for 30-50% of their stack in the first level they have alot more patience than people like me

Is this a joke?

Do you mean that every time someone who looks over 25 4 bets we have to fold because they can only have 1 of 2 hands? Also if they're under 25 we should flat because they could be light?

I don't think I've ever heard anything so ridiculous.

+1

I think you extend that range to 18-30, as you may misjudge how old someone really is.

Exactly. Just like they do in supermarkets when selling cigarettes.

You have to be sure what you're up against.

[titaniumbean]

Approaching the end of Level 1 25/50, everyone has roughly the 10k they started with.

Tim Blake makes it 150 from MP
I find     on the button and make it 425
He now makes it 1100

I assume the next step is pretty straight forward but would like to see if any opinions here differ................

Hi Stuart, I read the OP and had a whole load of thoughts then read onwards and some of my questions were answered but I don't want to just pot my results orientated summary thoughts.

Fwiw I don't know who TB is, have never heard of him and on my first read through I had no read, considering that you didn't snap fold preflop I assumed initially that by you knowing his name he would be younger and therefore capable of 4 bet bluffing (esp if he is more of an online cash player who just understands how horrible it is being 4 bet that early). Initially against a younger player however spewy it may be I don't think calling is too bad though I wouldn't bet the flop.

Once I read through the posts I saw the picture of who it was and I at least recognised him though I have no information on how he plays. Yet i'll be honest he's not 18-25 so I think it's very very safe to assume he is not light here so we should just fold to the 4 bet, I don't though think that the 3 bet itself is bad. Three betting in position is so powerful and there are alot of worse hands that he can call with or at least mid pairs etc which though are ahead we can move him off of pretty easily depending on board texture.

I think you then go on to say that you bet call the flop I think? And I think you've got to bet fold the flop if you do bet.  No offence to Timl88 in any way, but people who have played as often as he has live are not going to be making moves for 30-50% of their stack in the first level they have alot more patience than people like me

Is this a joke?

Do you mean that every time someone who looks over 25 4 bets we have to fold because they can only have 1 of 2 hands? Also if they're under 25 we should flat because they could be light?

I don't think I've ever heard anything so ridiculous.

lol I love how people hate steroetypes and think i'm being rude or saying something out or order. Do you take no information from how someone dresses/acts/speaks?

The phrase 4 bet bluffing really isn't a casino phrase so please don't try and tell me live players sit there 4 bet bluffing day in day out.  You do realise to understand 4 bet bluffing properly you either have to love your maths formulas or have a modicum or maths ability and play hundreds of thousands of hands. Younger players are more likely to have done this therefore they have the ability to 4 bet light older players who think AK is a drawing hand and that 72cc hitting a flush is worse compared to the A5cc fd lol are not going to be light hardly ever let alone 4 bet bluffing.

EDIT lets just remember how little 3 betting goes on live lol. there is no such thing as a 4 bet range for most live players let alone some proportion of that range that is a bluff to balance lol.

[gatso]

if you're going to take the supermarket selling cigarette line then 18-25 is fine. tesco's challenge 25 scheme is I believe the highest there is so no need to go to 30

[titaniumbean]

So what percentage of 3 bets during live play are light do we think :lol: ??

[roscopiko]

lol I love how people hate steroetypes and think i'm being rude or saying something out or order. Do you take no information from how someone dresses/acts/speaks?

The phrase 4 bet bluffing really isn't a casino phrase so please don't try and tell me live players sit there 4 bet bluffing day in day out.  You do realise to understand 4 bet bluffing properly you either have to love your maths formulas or have a modicum or maths ability and play hundreds of thousands of hands. Younger players are more likely to have done this therefore they have the ability to 4 bet light older players who think AK is a drawing hand and that 72cc hitting a flush is worse compared to the A5cc fd lol are not going to be light hardly ever let alone 4 bet bluffing.

EDIT lets just remember how little 3 betting goes on live lol. there is no such thing as a 4 bet range for most live players let alone some proportion of that range that is a bluff to balance lol.

lol i love playing internet nerds live, please play more

[titaniumbean]

lol I love how people hate steroetypes and think i'm being rude or saying something out or order. Do you take no information from how someone dresses/acts/speaks?

The phrase 4 bet bluffing really isn't a casino phrase so please don't try and tell me live players sit there 4 bet bluffing day in day out.  You do realise to understand 4 bet bluffing properly you either have to love your maths formulas or have a modicum or maths ability and play hundreds of thousands of hands. Younger players are more likely to have done this therefore they have the ability to 4 bet light older players who think AK is a drawing hand and that 72cc hitting a flush is worse compared to the A5cc fd lol are not going to be light hardly ever let alone 4 bet bluffing.

EDIT lets just remember how little 3 betting goes on live lol. there is no such thing as a 4 bet range for most live players let alone some proportion of that range that is a bluff to balance lol.

lol i love playing internet nerds live, please play more

Excellent discussion and valid reasoning, you must be right. You're obviously an expert.

[EvilPie]

lol I love how people hate steroetypes and think i'm being rude or saying something out or order. Do you take no information from how someone dresses/acts/speaks?

The phrase 4 bet bluffing really isn't a casino phrase so please don't try and tell me live players sit there 4 bet bluffing day in day out.  You do realise to understand 4 bet bluffing properly you either have to love your maths formulas or have a modicum or maths ability and play hundreds of thousands of hands. Younger players are more likely to have done this therefore they have the ability to 4 bet light older players who think AK is a drawing hand and that 72cc hitting a flush is worse compared to the A5cc fd lol are not going to be light hardly ever let alone 4 bet bluffing.

EDIT lets just remember how little 3 betting goes on live lol. there is no such thing as a 4 bet range for most live players let alone some proportion of that range that is a bluff to balance lol.

Firstly I don't hate stereotypes. I also don't think you're out of order or rude. You are just expressing an opinion and that is fine.

Taking information: I take infromation from betting patterns and perceived ability primarily. The difficult thing is assessing this ability. I have never based it on how old someone is or how they dress. That would just be stupid.

I play primarily live and I understand the phrase 4 bet bluff. If I think someone's stupid enough to think that because I'm 34 I will never 4 bet bluff then I can assure you that they are in for a world of hurt everytime they 3 bet me.

Thankyou for reassuring me that not all internet players are as good as I thought they might be.