Hand Range

[Blatch]

Playing £550 final table with 5 left.

Blinds at 1500 / 3000 / 300

Cut off raises to 8200, SB flats.  This is the first hand that BB has flatted OOP on the final table out of a stack of around 280k.  Cut off is the curent short stack with around 81k after the raise.

Flop brings K,10,6 rainbow and SB leads for 11k fairly quickly.  Cut off raises to 27.8k.

What kind of hands do you put the cut off on?  Could he ever fold if you reshove?

[outragous76]

Obv Player dependant, but he is getting exactly 2:1 if you shove

Diff to put him on a range without knowing his frequency - but the open raise is any pair A2+ any 2 broadway suited and not, maybe even some middling suited connectors.

(BTW my maths is out of you meant SB and not BB when u say he flatted OOP)

AS for the raise - well he could obv have the genuine hands (AA KK AK KQ)  plus QJ  QQ JJ

I would say he SHOULDNT be folding (if the pot is 54k pre the reshove - but u havent mentioned BB folding so dont know if that is just an error)
His actions suggest that he WONT be folding
Id be very surprised of he did!

[AlexMartin]

cutoff could have a wideish range (1010+/J10s+/ gutter+overs), BUT, i think hes folding rarely.

[Blatch]

cutoff could have a wideish range (1010+/J10s+/ gutter+overs), BUT, i think hes folding rarely.

ok so for the SB to shove does he have to have it every time?

i.e. flopped set, AA, AK, K10

[salfi]

cutoff could have a wideish range (1010+/J10s+/ gutter+overs), BUT, i think hes folding rarely.

ok so for the SB to shove does he have to have it every time?

i.e. flopped set, AA, AK, K10

he more then likely has atleast a king. its live poker and i wouldnt expect every player to be nut peddling at any table. u wil see kq kj and qj by some players. its all player dependent surely .if he three bets flop his range must include qj cause some people lead at pots with any draw and wil shove if they think they have fold equity even in this spot he has fe so im sure qj must be in that range.

[Blatch]

cutoff could have a wideish range (1010+/J10s+/ gutter+overs), BUT, i think hes folding rarely.

ok so for the SB to shove does he have to have it every time?

i.e. flopped set, AA, AK, K10

he more then likely has atleast a king. its live poker and i wouldnt expect every player to be nut peddling at any table. u wil see kq kj and qj by some players. its all player dependent surely .if he three bets flop his range must include qj cause some people lead at pots with any draw and wil shove if they think they have fold equity even in this spot he has fe so im sure qj must be in that range.

SB is a very useful player and wouldnt flat OOP with KJ or K10.

[EvilPie]

Who was it Blatch?

[Blatch]

Who was it Blatch?

Chris Brammer - eventual winner

[EvilPie]

Chris could be on pretty much atc here.

A shove could easily get a fold but it could also go wrong.

Just one of them to go with your feel at the time and shove or fold.

I really don't like playing pots against Chris oop. He's very aggro and you're likely to have put all your chips at risk at some point.

I honestly couldn't begin to guess what he has here and that goes for most hands he plays.

[Blatch]

Chris could be on pretty much atc here.

A shove could easily get a fold but it could also go wrong.

Just one of them to go with your feel at the time and shove or fold.

I really don't like playing pots against Chris oop. He's very aggro and you're likely to have put all your chips at risk at some point.

I honestly couldn't begin to guess what he has here and that goes for most hands he plays.

Think your a bit confused here bud.

Chris flatted in the SB OOP im the player who raised pre and raised on the flop with with little F/E behind

[EvilPie]

Chris could be on pretty much atc here.

A shove could easily get a fold but it could also go wrong.

Just one of them to go with your feel at the time and shove or fold.

I really don't like playing pots against Chris oop. He's very aggro and you're likely to have put all your chips at risk at some point.

I honestly couldn't begin to guess what he has here and that goes for most hands he plays.

Think your a bit confused here bud.

Chris flatted in the SB OOP im the player who raised pre and raised on the flop with with little F/E behind

So you're asking what he might put you on and whether he thinks you will fold?

Well he's definitely got fold equity that's for sure. 15bbs back if you pass so you can definitely get away.

He's got to put you on something at least half decent although your cut off range is fairly wide. JQ is a possibility or possibly an under pair. 99/88 for example.

He could just be using his big stack to his advantage. Perhaps he's got A6 and thinks he can shove with FE + a chance of binking if you snap him with Kx even KJ.

Chris is a very good player from what I've seen and when he has a stack he likes to use it aggressively.

He's good enough to know that you've got to put him on something good if he shoves. So this coupled with some kind of lucky out or 2 if he gets it wrong and the 190k he'd still have anyway means he probably doesn't have to worry about what you've got.

[Blatch]

The raise puts in around 1/3 of my stack and with the pre flop action he cant surely expect me to be folding any kind of hand

[EvilPie]

The raise puts in around 1/3 of my stack and with the pre flop action he cant surely expect me to be folding any kind of hand

I think the FE side of this is marginal.

Yes you've put in a big chunk but you've left yourself enough to come back.

Like I say perhaps he's got a bit of a hand anyway so thinks with the bit of FE + the chance of winning anyway + his huge stack he can make a push here.

On the other hand he could have a monster and think that you can't pass.

Perhaps he's thought this through from your perspective and realised what a bitch of a decision this would be for you if he shoves.

I take it he shoved?

[Blatch]

he asked what I had an virtually before I answered he had announced all in.

I had KQ and passed to his and a few others shock. 

I, however, made a genuine raise for info and if he shoves there I cant see what im beating.

I personally thought he had flatted with AA pre and led the flop expecting me to shove.  I dont see other hands making sense apart from 66 for the set or maybe even KK.

Im just wondering if I find out the same info any other way.  I.e. if I flat the turn what do I do on the turn?  Would a good player like Chris just exploit me flatting and turning into a calling station.

[GreekStein]

I, however, made a genuine raise for info

Pretty sure you shouldn't do this.