Hand Range

[Blatch]

why were you so convinced he was flatting with AA rather than any other hand?

Its the first raise on a 5 hour final table he has flatted OOP

Alarm bells rang very loud

[Blatch]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

Right, so can we just open fold here?

If this is the case then what does flatting ever find out?

[George2Loose]

why were you so convinced he was flatting with AA rather than any other hand?

Its the first raise on a 5 hour final table he has flatted OOP

Alarm bells rang very loud

so why raise him? I'm confused. You raised him to deffo find out he had AA?

[Blatch]

what is your line if u flop kkk or 10 10 10  or qj? ? ?        would u raise these on the flop ?

QJ I certainly would shove, KK or 10 10 I would raise/shove

[George2Loose]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

Right, so can we just open fold here?

If this is the case then what does flatting ever find out?

because some of his range is made up of draws just as AQ, AJ, QJ. Some of his range is middle pair- A10, J10, Q10. 109. And some of his range is complete air

He knows how strong leading looks. Your raise looked exactly like what it was- info. He jams over the top- you got your "info" and folded

[Blatch]

why were you so convinced he was flatting with AA rather than any other hand?

Its the first raise on a 5 hour final table he has flatted OOP

Alarm bells rang very loud

so why raise him? I'm confused. You raised him to deffo find out he had AA?

I raised as I thought he would have to fold anything im beating and more importantly ONLY EVER shove if im miles behind.  (Only exception being QJ)

[MANTIS01]

what is your line if u flop kkk or 10 10 10  or qj? ? ?        would u raise these on the flop ?

This is the point. If you look at things from the top end of the strength spectrum you would never manufacture a situation where you look like you're not folding your hand. You would almost certainly flat the lead. So while you might be fretting about what to do turn/river if villain keeps firing I don't think things would pan out that way if you took that line. Because of your shortish stack flatting looks much stronger than raising imo and villain prob reacts differently. If he continue firing thou I think that info is of a better quality than him shoving the flop. Cos all he has to do is make this connection of strength with flatting to make a move when you raise. A lot of the comment you make is indicative of the sort of pressure a bigger stack can apply. While it can look like only 1 or 2 hands from your seat villain has nowhere near the pressure to be 100% accurate with how he reads the situation.

[Blatch]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

Right, so can we just open fold here?

If this is the case then what does flatting ever find out?

because some of his range is made up of draws just as AQ, AJ, QJ. Some of his range is middle pair- A10, J10, Q10. 109. And some of his range is complete air

He knows how strong leading looks. Your raise looked exactly like what it was- info. He jams over the top- you got your "info" and folded

AQ AJ I think he 3 bets pre.  I also dont think he leads out with any mid pair.

[Blatch]

what is your line if u flop kkk or 10 10 10  or qj? ? ?        would u raise these on the flop ?

This is the point. If you look at things from the top end of the strength spectrum you would never manufacture a situation where you look like you're not folding your hand. You would almost certainly flat the lead. So while you might be fretting about what to do turn/river if villain keeps firing I don't think things would pan out that way if you took that line. Because of your shortish stack flatting looks much stronger than raising imo and villain prob reacts differently. If he continue firing thou I think that info is of a better quality than him shoving the flop. Cos all he has to do is make this connection of strength with flatting to make a move when you raise. A lot of the comment you make is indicative of the sort of pressure a bigger stack can apply. While it can look like only 1 or 2 hands from your seat villain has nowhere near the pressure to be 100% accurate with how he reads the situation.

I see what your saying and maybe I should be flatting to look stronger than I am.

If I flat what range do you think he then leads turn with aswell?

[George2Loose]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

Right, so can we just open fold here?

If this is the case then what does flatting ever find out?

because some of his range is made up of draws just as AQ, AJ, QJ. Some of his range is middle pair- A10, J10, Q10. 109. And some of his range is complete air

He knows how strong leading looks. Your raise looked exactly like what it was- info. He jams over the top- you got your "info" and folded

AQ AJ I think he 3 bets pre.  I also dont think he leads out with any mid pair.

So what is he leading with?

[MANTIS01]

KK or 10 10 I would raise/shove

The raise puts in around 1/3 of my stack and with the pre flop action he cant surely expect me to be folding any kind of hand

Those 2 things don't sit right together. You think you look like you're not folding if you raise so you would do that with the nuts?

[MANTIS01]

what is your line if u flop kkk or 10 10 10  or qj? ? ?        would u raise these on the flop ?

This is the point. If you look at things from the top end of the strength spectrum you would never manufacture a situation where you look like you're not folding your hand. You would almost certainly flat the lead. So while you might be fretting about what to do turn/river if villain keeps firing I don't think things would pan out that way if you took that line. Because of your shortish stack flatting looks much stronger than raising imo and villain prob reacts differently. If he continue firing thou I think that info is of a better quality than him shoving the flop. Cos all he has to do is make this connection of strength with flatting to make a move when you raise. A lot of the comment you make is indicative of the sort of pressure a bigger stack can apply. While it can look like only 1 or 2 hands from your seat villain has nowhere near the pressure to be 100% accurate with how he reads the situation.

I see what your saying and maybe I should be flatting to look stronger than I am.

If I flat what range do you think he then leads turn with aswell?

I think his range for leading the turn is much thinner than his range for jamming the flop

[Blatch]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

Right, so can we just open fold here?

If this is the case then what does flatting ever find out?

because some of his range is made up of draws just as AQ, AJ, QJ. Some of his range is middle pair- A10, J10, Q10. 109. And some of his range is complete air

He knows how strong leading looks. Your raise looked exactly like what it was- info. He jams over the top- you got your "info" and folded

AQ AJ I think he 3 bets pre.  I also dont think he leads out with any mid pair.

So what is he leading with?

Set, AA, Air

[George2Loose]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

Right, so can we just open fold here?

If this is the case then what does flatting ever find out?

because some of his range is made up of draws just as AQ, AJ, QJ. Some of his range is middle pair- A10, J10, Q10. 109. And some of his range is complete air

He knows how strong leading looks. Your raise looked exactly like what it was- info. He jams over the top- you got your "info" and folded

AQ AJ I think he 3 bets pre.  I also dont think he leads out with any mid pair.

So what is he leading with?

Set, AA, Air

I think against that range I like open folding better than raise/folding

Look at it from his point of view- he's taken a very strong line- I don't think he's EVER lead/folding here.

[Blatch]

thats what im kind of getting but didnt want to put it into anyones mouth.

Im wondering if we can make a case for open folding here regarding my stack size etc