Hand Range

[outragous76]

why were you so convinced he was flatting with AA rather than any other hand?

Its the first raise on a 5 hour final table he has flatted OOP

Alarm bells rang very loud

mixing up his game to make you fold TP? by taking a line which is AA? Maybe he just like the look of QJs? couldnt fold the KJ cause he was tired?

i just think that you have narrowed his range way to much pre ........... and your line doesnt make any sense when you can easily flat the donk lead if you put him on AA. Plenty cards are going to slow him down on the turn as soon as you show interest in teh flop if he does or doesnt have AA

[MANTIS01]

why were you so convinced he was flatting with AA rather than any other hand?

Its the first raise on a 5 hour final table he has flatted OOP

Alarm bells rang very loud

mixing up his game to make you fold TP? by taking a line which is AA? Maybe he just like the look of QJs? couldnt fold the KJ cause he was tired?

i just think that you have narrowed his range way to much pre ........... and your line doesnt make any sense when you can easily flat the donk lead if you put him on AA. Plenty cards are going to slow him down on the turn as soon as you show interest in teh flop if he does or doesnt have AA

Kind of agree. If he hasn't called a raise out of the blinds in 5 hrs he might be hankering to play a pot, so he could call with e.g. suited connectors. Don't like the idea of going all-in gambling my quality oppo is tired or liked the look of his hand thou. More believable that he likes the look of the situation. Call with a hand that can flop, with a golden image, looking to lead most flops and put max pressure on hero, risking a small % of his stack. He can react to the raise by sensing weakness and jamming. Blatch's thought process in this thread means he's good enough for this to make sense and his stack makes it viable. If you think this is at least possible it opens up villain's range past A-A/sets and makes calling with tp easy considering the situation.

[Blatch]

ok sounds like there is a very valid reason for flatting the flop.

What do we do on a blank turn if ...

a) he sets us in

b) he checks to us

My only feeling is that if we have flatted we have shown quite a bit of strength and therefore if he then leads the turn it shows enormous strength on his part, therefore where is TP?  If then checks the turn any bet is kinda committing ourselves to the hand and only getting bad action.

It truly is a yuckey yuckey spot.

[outragous76]

ok sounds like there is a very valid reason for flatting the flop.

What do we do on a blank turn if ...

a) he sets us in

b) he checks to us

My only feeling is that if we have flatted we have shown quite a bit of strength and therefore if he then leads the turn it shows enormous strength on his part, therefore where is TP?  If then checks the turn any bet is kinda committing ourselves to the hand and only getting bad action.

It truly is a yuckey yuckey spot.

i cant lie

a) snap call

b) check behind for pot control/catch up

[Blatch]

ok sounds like there is a very valid reason for flatting the flop.

What do we do on a blank turn if ...

a) he sets us in

b) he checks to us

My only feeling is that if we have flatted we have shown quite a bit of strength and therefore if he then leads the turn it shows enormous strength on his part, therefore where is TP?  If then checks the turn any bet is kinda committing ourselves to the hand and only getting bad action.

It truly is a yuckey yuckey spot.

i cant lie

a) snap call

b) check behind for pot control/catch up

Snap call and hope you are winning?

Assuming you check then what do you do if he shoves the river?  Im assuming you would snap call.

So basically we have no extra info on the hand and are going broke and hoping we are winning.  Surely this is more -ev than raising the flop for the info that we received?

[outragous76]

ok sounds like there is a very valid reason for flatting the flop.

What do we do on a blank turn if ...

a) he sets us in

b) he checks to us

My only feeling is that if we have flatted we have shown quite a bit of strength and therefore if he then leads the turn it shows enormous strength on his part, therefore where is TP?  If then checks the turn any bet is kinda committing ourselves to the hand and only getting bad action.

It truly is a yuckey yuckey spot.

i cant lie

a) snap call

b) check behind for pot control/catch up

Snap call and hope you are winning?

Assuming you check then what do you do if he shoves the river?  Im assuming you would snap call.

So basically we have no extra info on the hand and are going broke and hoping we are winning.  Surely this is more -ev than raising the flop for the info that we received?

wouoldnt snap the river - but 1 subtle difference - a full board................................ (for free)

[GreekStein]

Neil tbh I don't think you had KQ.

[Blatch]

Neil tbh I don't think you had KQ.

This is what Chris and Toby said but its what I had

[outragous76]

so what did the villain have - and did he show or is it hearsay? (im assuming you flashed a K when you folded ?)

[Blatch]

so what did the villain have - and did he show or is it hearsay? (im assuming you flashed a K when you folded ?)

I didnt show anything but neither did he, apart from a suprise look when I folded.

He claims he had 66 for the flopped set

[MANTIS01]

How do you feel about this fold Blatch? I assume you're not posting the hand to showcase your skillz, so it must be bothering you a bit?

[outragous76]

and if you get it in against 66 do you not just chalk it up as a cooler?

[Blatch]

How do you feel about this fold Blatch? I assume you're not posting the hand to showcase your skillz, so it must be bothering you a bit?

Walking away I thought it was one of my worst spews in a loing time.  However thinking about the situation and the stack sizes im thinking maybe there is an arguement for open folding the flop once he leads.

[MANTIS01]

How do you feel about this fold Blatch? I assume you're not posting the hand to showcase your skillz, so it must be bothering you a bit?

Walking away I thought it was one of my worst spews in a loing time.  However thinking about the situation and the stack sizes im thinking maybe there is an argument for open folding the flop once he leads.

So you are convinced he had 6-6 then? I mean he didn't show it....and it's very much in his interests that the table believe he will always have "it" when playing a pot in this short-handed game. He must be pretty pissed off with the way he played the hand if he did in fact have a set? If he did have it wd for the lay down. Anyway, there is obv an argument for open folding if you have lost your mind dude.

[AlexMartin]

lets break this down, raise folding the cream of your range shorthanded shortstacked against a good opponent is burning money. Sometimes he will have u crushed, but not often enough!