Which one is it (for tells experts)?

[Royal Flush]

I've never seen an instant bet against a ridic sized 3bet when checked too being air.

If you must 3bet so crazily, plz lead the flop!

[titaniumbean]

If the player is competent and the kind of player you think will see you are repping a whiffed AK and move you off it then why are you checking the flop to him. If he isn't capable of assessing the range of hands you could be perceived to have then it's a very easy fold imo irrespective of tells.

Ok, fair enough, I see why I have to fold if I check, but the pf raise is pretty standard, surely? Sometimes I call and take a flop but on this occasion I chose to 3-bet .

Yes 3 bet is goooood. I flat IF

a - we are v deep and the opener will flat alot and make me play oop deep. so we 1 control pot size and 2 add some deception to our flatting range. 3 we can also be squeezed from behind some marginal amount of the time.
b- the player is willing to raise AJ but will never call a 3 bet or if they are of the ilk to just shove if they are continuing because you've made it so big they're gonna either fold or go with their medium pair or whatever they wanna get it in with. that way you can keep in the hands you dominate and if you have a skill advantage then you can exploit that edge live even oop with large psr and a relatively strong hand.

I don't really get the pf raise size, once you check the flop you have to just fold. As it is i've found players who bet 'this much' are the kind who are just waiting for a hand.

I thought the pf raise was alright - what don't you like about it?

What are the effective stack sizes? it's 0.5/1 right? 6 is a decent sized open and 30 is a big 3 bet (pot would be ~20 I think). Yes we are oop and we dont want calls as often. If he's bad and we think he is always calling (which it doesn't sound like here) then big is great and just bet and get it in all the time but considering no one is that exploitable and people esp at 0.5/1 play pretty darn tight i'd 3 bet pre to 22 and c/f this flop to that bet. Not that many live players have lots of bluff in them so a quick bet is more likely to be something in their hand telling them they are winning than them seeing weakness and pouncing.

Fair point. We're getting into the hand here, which I didn't want really but never mind. It's some useful perspective Andy. I knew I was overdoing the 'tells' bit, but I did wonder if anyone had seen this insta-bet before, and what they thought it meant.

Yes lots of players are sitting their playing tight and then when they play a hand they always have 'something' so always bet but their betting is also relatively face up. I'm pretty sure that for the rest of the night that guy didn't just bet when checked to every time? I deffo think the quick bet is indicative of not much thought required which is either an insta bluff or the i've got the best hand mentality.

As it is as played and still without knowing stacksizes which is hugely important i'd say bet fold the flop after making the pot so big pre and repping such a strong range.

edit my bet would be ~35-fold too assuming 200+bb eff stacks to start the hand.

[MANTIS01]

pls don't make your decisions on betting patterns alone in a live game. If you're going to do that stay at home and play tinternet.

Please trust me - I don't go solely on tells. That would be insane. But I wanted to post because I have seen this "insta-bet, come what may" before and I wanted some blonde perspectives on it. Whether I called or not isn't really important, for me I just want some considered and helpful insight.

From the responses so far, it's clear that most people don't think tells to be that important. Oh, and bolt, he was very sober. I was too, tired, but definitely sober.

Your man is displaying a number of behavioural tells. I wont go through them all. Some are classically weak and some are classically strong. So there's a mixture. He could well have a hand like  which would account for the blend of strong and weak. Until you get a base level of behaviour from an individual it's pretty much guesswork thou. But what I said was don't listen to tinternet players who tell you to ignore behaviour at the table, that is crazy.

[titaniumbean]

pls don't make your decisions on betting patterns alone in a live game. If you're going to do that stay at home and play tinternet.

Please trust me - I don't go solely on tells. That would be insane. But I wanted to post because I have seen this "insta-bet, come what may" before and I wanted some blonde perspectives on it. Whether I called or not isn't really important, for me I just want some considered and helpful insight.

From the responses so far, it's clear that most people don't think tells to be that important. Oh, and bolt, he was very sober. I was too, tired, but definitely sober.

Your man is displaying a number of behavioural tells. I wont go through them all. Some are classically weak and some are classically strong. So there's a mixture. He could well have a hand like  which would account for the blend of strong and weak. Until you get a base level of behaviour from an individual it's pretty much guesswork thou. But what I said was don't listen to tinternet players who tell you to ignore behaviour at the table, that is crazy.

Do you think the guy thinks he's weak betting 66-88 kinda hands here once we check.

[MANTIS01]

pls don't make your decisions on betting patterns alone in a live game. If you're going to do that stay at home and play tinternet.

Please trust me - I don't go solely on tells. That would be insane. But I wanted to post because I have seen this "insta-bet, come what may" before and I wanted some blonde perspectives on it. Whether I called or not isn't really important, for me I just want some considered and helpful insight.

From the responses so far, it's clear that most people don't think tells to be that important. Oh, and bolt, he was very sober. I was too, tired, but definitely sober.

Your man is displaying a number of behavioural tells. I wont go through them all. Some are classically weak and some are classically strong. So there's a mixture. He could well have a hand like  which would account for the blend of strong and weak. Until you get a base level of behaviour from an individual it's pretty much guesswork thou. But what I said was don't listen to tinternet players who tell you to ignore behaviour at the table, that is crazy.

Do you think the guy thinks he's weak betting 66-88 kinda hands here once we check.

That's possible. The insta jam on the turn makes me think not thou.

[titaniumbean]

pls don't make your decisions on betting patterns alone in a live game. If you're going to do that stay at home and play tinternet.

Please trust me - I don't go solely on tells. That would be insane. But I wanted to post because I have seen this "insta-bet, come what may" before and I wanted some blonde perspectives on it. Whether I called or not isn't really important, for me I just want some considered and helpful insight.

From the responses so far, it's clear that most people don't think tells to be that important. Oh, and bolt, he was very sober. I was too, tired, but definitely sober.

Your man is displaying a number of behavioural tells. I wont go through them all. Some are classically weak and some are classically strong. So there's a mixture. He could well have a hand like  which would account for the blend of strong and weak. Until you get a base level of behaviour from an individual it's pretty much guesswork thou. But what I said was don't listen to tinternet players who tell you to ignore behaviour at the table, that is crazy.

Do you think the guy thinks he's weak betting 66-88 kinda hands here once we check.

That's possible. The insta jam on the turn makes me think not thou.

Yeah I know that's the sort of hand (most likely closer to JJ) that I would put them on alonside the AQcc where they understand they have a good hand but don't feel as comfortable as they should.

[Pyso]

I've never seen an instant bet against a ridic sized 3bet when checked too being air.

If you must 3bet so crazily, plz lead the flop!

I agree the 3bet was a little large. I also agree I should have lead out. I agree I butchered it somewhat. Oh well.

On reflection, I just kinda got (very) curious about what the insta-bet from my opponent and his body language really meant.

[Pyso]

If the player is competent and the kind of player you think will see you are repping a whiffed AK and move you off it then why are you checking the flop to him. If he isn't capable of assessing the range of hands you could be perceived to have then it's a very easy fold imo irrespective of tells.

Ok, fair enough, I see why I have to fold if I check, but the pf raise is pretty standard, surely? Sometimes I call and take a flop but on this occasion I chose to 3-bet .

Yes 3 bet is goooood. I flat IF

a - we are v deep and the opener will flat alot and make me play oop deep. so we 1 control pot size and 2 add some deception to our flatting range. 3 we can also be squeezed from behind some marginal amount of the time.
b- the player is willing to raise AJ but will never call a 3 bet or if they are of the ilk to just shove if they are continuing because you've made it so big they're gonna either fold or go with their medium pair or whatever they wanna get it in with. that way you can keep in the hands you dominate and if you have a skill advantage then you can exploit that edge live even oop with large psr and a relatively strong hand.

I don't really get the pf raise size, once you check the flop you have to just fold. As it is i've found players who bet 'this much' are the kind who are just waiting for a hand.

I thought the pf raise was alright - what don't you like about it?

What are the effective stack sizes? it's 0.5/1 right? 6 is a decent sized open and 30 is a big 3 bet (pot would be ~20 I think). Yes we are oop and we dont want calls as often. If he's bad and we think he is always calling (which it doesn't sound like here) then big is great and just bet and get it in all the time but considering no one is that exploitable and people esp at 0.5/1 play pretty darn tight i'd 3 bet pre to 22 and c/f this flop to that bet. Not that many live players have lots of bluff in them so a quick bet is more likely to be something in their hand telling them they are winning than them seeing weakness and pouncing.

Fair point. We're getting into the hand here, which I didn't want really but never mind. It's some useful perspective Andy. I knew I was overdoing the 'tells' bit, but I did wonder if anyone had seen this insta-bet before, and what they thought it meant.

Yes lots of players are sitting their playing tight and then when they play a hand they always have 'something' so always bet but their betting is also relatively face up. I'm pretty sure that for the rest of the night that guy didn't just bet when checked to every time? I deffo think the quick bet is indicative of not much thought required which is either an insta bluff or the i've got the best hand mentality.

As it is as played and still without knowing stacksizes which is hugely important i'd say bet fold the flop after making the pot so big pre and repping such a strong range.

edit my bet would be ~35-fold too assuming 200+bb eff stacks to start the hand.

Stack sizes were me - £150 approx. and him about £225

A big problem was for me was that he hadn't been at the table long.

[Pyso]

"Until you get a base level of behaviour from an individual it's pretty much guesswork thou. But what I said was don't listen to tinternet players who tell you to ignore behaviour at the table, that is crazy."

Fair point.

[titaniumbean]

How did he win his 125 quid since he sat? that must give you some information no?

[gatso]

tl;dr I'm gojing to assume it's multi choice. I pick b)