final table 321 hand

[George2Loose]

OK this was against a very decent player from Newcastle. He opens for 76k at 15/30k.

I have 1.1m at start of the hand. Villian has about 700k

I 3 bet to 188k.

He 4 bets to 350k. Two questions:

1) Is he EVER folding to a shove?

2) What hands should I be shoving for value?

In terms of history this is the first hand I've 3 bet him although my image is awful (as usual)

[Colchester Kev]

I was talking to Simon Trumper earlier about this hand .... we both had Neil on QQ min and said he was never folding to a shove from you.

[McSnort]

i reckon he may have a midpair and be making a move as you have been very aggressive at this tabvle, especially against this villain. I reckon he might fold to a 5 bet and is making some kinda move with a mid pair like 88 as you have been over aggressive, esp that J7 you fish

[LeKnave]

1. no
2. everything tht u decided u wernt 3b/folding when u 3bet.

[Royal Flush]

I reckon he might fold to a 5 bet and is making some kinda move with a mid pair like 88 as you have been over aggressive, esp that J7 you fish

How is he making a move with 88, unless the move is, getting it in for valoooo, in which case he probs aint folding.

George obv he is never folding, as Jones said get it in with your 3b call range, fold your 3b fold range...

[George2Loose]

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

[buzzharvey22]

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

i was 4 bet folding lol

[George2Loose]

seriously??? isn't that a huge spew? nice bet by the way

[MANTIS01]

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

i was 4 bet folding lol

You put half your stack in to fold your last 350k into a pot of over a million? Why?

[AlexMartin]

he picks up 120k risking 190, it works enough.......

probsJJ+/ak tbh, but impossible to say from here

also, are u rolled for these games?

[EvilPie]

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

i was 4 bet folding lol

You put half your stack in to fold your last 350k into a pot of over a million? Why?

Looks a good move to me against the right oppo.

The 4 bet looks like a 4 bet to induce so George needs something pretty big to shove with unless he's got balls of steel or a very good read.

[MANTIS01]

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

i was 4 bet folding lol

You put half your stack in to fold your last 350k into a pot of over a million? Why?

Looks a good move to me against the right oppo.

The 4 bet looks like a 4 bet to induce so George needs something pretty big to shove with unless he's got balls of steel or a very good read.

Isn't any 4-bet designed to look like it's there to induce? I was wondering why the chip daddy with 1.1m is deemed the right person to make this move on, especially when there's gonna be so much money in the pot. Looking to 4-bet fold with a stack of 23bb's just strikes me as odd. But apart from that 4-bet/folding to leave yourself with 10bb's when there would be 1.1 million out there seems questionable imo, especially vs a loose/aggro oppo. The pot would be offering you over 3-1 to win a total stack of 1.5 million and prob 1st prize in the tournament. You've still got equity in this pot nomatter what.

[BulldozerD]

oppo should never be 4bet folding - but seen players live do really odd stuff

i guess when you 3bet you had a plan as to what was coming next but i am not folding any of my 3bet value raising hands

[EvilPie]

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

i was 4 bet folding lol

You put half your stack in to fold your last 350k into a pot of over a million? Why?

Looks a good move to me against the right oppo.

The 4 bet looks like a 4 bet to induce so George needs something pretty big to shove with unless he's got balls of steel or a very good read.

Isn't any 4-bet designed to look like it's there to induce? I was wondering why the chip daddy with 1.1m is deemed the right person to make this move on, especially when there's gonna be so much money in the pot. Looking to 4-bet fold with a stack of 23bb's just strikes me as odd. But apart from that 4-bet/folding to leave yourself with 10bb's when there would be 1.1 million out there seems questionable imo, especially vs a loose/aggro oppo. The pot would be offering you over 3-1 to win a total stack of 1.5 million and prob 1st prize in the tournament. You've still got equity in this pot nomatter what.

Exactly. That's why it looks so strong. Therefore George needs a very strong hand (or balls of steel) to shove.

I agree with everything else you say but it depends on the cards I'm holding really.

I'd never 4 bet fold with A4 for example because unless I'm up against AA I've always got a 30% bink possibility.

If I've done it with 74 it's an absolute stone cold bluff with the intention of folding to the shove.

I'm not saying that I regularly do this btw as obv I don't.

[EvilPie]

oppo should never be 4bet folding - but seen players live do really odd stuff

i guess when you 3bet you had a plan as to what was coming next but i am not folding any of my 3bet value raising hands

There's a world of difference between a 3 bet value raise and a 3 bet bluff though.

I'd guess George had a bag of bollox here and was just trying to nick the pot.

If he was value raising he's snap shoving the 4 bet 100% of the time.