£1/£2 Cash Hand: Snap call the river?!?!?

[titaniumbean]

Obv Julian is a v.good player and the chances of him making a move here against players who dont like to fold is 0%.

I am assuming one of these is you!!

Snap call obv.
Will be crying sometimes but it still doesn't make it a fold.

So we beat A5/K5/22/56/58
lose to 54/57/ never 77.

 meh maybe it is a call. ugh ghay ghay ugly spot

I like your style on PHA. Make multiple posts on every thread giving all the possible lines you could take, hoping to look like a poker genius when one of them is vaguely close to a gd strat.

BTW, when are you going up to Manc for the SPT - Fri or Sat?

Im mentally spewing and asking questions lol. If you dont think about all lines in a hand how can you know for sure that the one you have chosen is the best?

I think this decision is horribly close and you dont seem to think it's slightly close?

[Mitch]

At least some people are on my line of thinking! Thought i might get a load of 'you cant fold' 'dont slowroll' etc etc posts.

Ryte to answer a few questions in the last few posts....

I'd shove the turn and some % of the time lead the flop.
Yeah i like to lead this usually but i know that the other players in this hand are gonna take a pop and it just doesnt seem ryte to give them an excuse to fold. I deffo should be shoving the turn so this situation cant happen but ive already said that in the original HH


How has the session been going for you and julian? He is a very good player who plays very consistently which would make me not like how i've played it once he shoves river because some little nitty bit of me would want to fold  now that he knows i'm strong.

We have played together pretty regularly for about the last month and have both been really mixing it up with each other ie checking quads on the river, calling big bets with 3rd pair on river etc so although i know he is capable of making a play, i just dont think this situation is one where he is due to the other players involved preflop. Previous to this hand, Julian in about £500 up for the game and im maybe £150 infront so neither tilting or anything like that.


Tbh you do raise your straddle regularly but if he had trapped you with whatever hand then he isn't going to be raising a paired board in a limped pot.
Yeah thats why i said it was such a small chance, but it is possible


Also I am please to see that even though the story didn't start 'the straddle is 132 and I have aces after 8 limpers' you still flopped the world, MBFN!

Running good FTW!

and obv he has 45.



how was Ireland too fishy?
Going next week for the PaddyPower one!

Oh, and two more musings.

I assume you are adequately rolled for this game? I've only played a little with you Mitch and it seems that you are - so you won't be making a fold with scared money.
Yeah it was never about the money, just sometimes get the feeling you must be crushed.

..and if you are going to straddle (my opinions on this are well known, lol) then why fold when you hit the jackpot on the flop. Yes, you should have shoved before the river, but even so, as played, more often than not you will be winning.
Obv flopping the nuts is nice but the straddle is more to give opportunity to isolate weeker players than the idea some people have of "One day i will get aces on my straddle and make an extra 4BB's"
Was there any dialogue on this hand or body language that may have swayed your decision?
Once Jullain had shoved the river i said to him "u know ive got a full house right"....Hes obv a very experienced pro and not going to be giving too much away in that area but he did give it the old "ill show if u fold" and "that would be a huge laydown" but i dont like to read much into that with a player like him coz its all that 'you know that i know that you know etc so my read on the hand was more to do with betting and the confidence to shove the lot in on the river after the action which had proceeded it

The only sort of hands that we beat are A5/K5s that thinks they are coolering a smaller five, having said that the boards run out such that I don't think he's value betting A5 that often.

There is 430 into 530 on the river. That's alot of monies to be putting in on a bluff, it's very unlikely mitch is calling the shove with too much worse, mitch is not often folding fh's.  There's also pretty much 0% chance that Julian puts Mitch on anything but at least a 5.

Weve played a few hands together lately where julian has checked/called with big hands that are not the nuts on the river (such as QJ on QQX board when ive had KQ or something similar, so for him to lead all three streets i think it almost has to be a full house minimum


Mitchellina how long did you take to call the turn and did you do any chip faffing etc? Also wats average pot size at the table cos if the tables playing really big and quite fast i'd never fold. And who is winning/losing?

Playing some decent size pots but nothing this big. I gave a bit of a dwell on the turn, not for hollywooding but i was genuinely not happy abt the turn and was obv considering the raise. Didnt spk or count out a raise n put it back or anything like that

 But the more I look the more I wanna tank fold the river and give him the dirtiest stare!

In summary I think I mean: It seems so 'exploitable' to fold but haha no this is live just fold we're beat.

Anyway after a few minutes i decide to fold and he shows me the full house as expected...but its  for the under full. At least i read him correctly for strength, and he said he genuinely thought he was winning and hoped i could pay him off with a 5. I asked him after if he would have shoved with a bare 5 and he replied that he would most likely be check calling. Shove the turn FTW in future by me but N/M.

[titaniumbean]

Ah ok Irelands next week. GL.


Yeah I think with a dynamic of mixing it up he's still not putting you on floating the flop or being anything but trips+ here.

Obviously raising this turn is going to save us this hassle, but when in this spot it's so hard for him to be value betting worse and I think he is always so strong and full I think I would still fold.

I think the whole hand revolves around the fact we haven't acted and he's showing such strength raising the two pony bets.

Am I really that bad live/should I just stay at home playing online ?! 

[Mitch]

Am I really that bad live/should I just stay at home playing online ?! 

No, i wouldnt do that either.

[titaniumbean]

Am I really that bad live/should I just stay at home playing online ?! 

No, i wouldnt do that either.

haha love you too hunni. you just want me to donk money to you so you can buy more food! ;P

[Rupert]

Straddling is not a bad thing or much of a -ev thing if you play your situations well.

this is hilariously wrong, straddling is nearly always hugely -EV and definitely in a full ring game always -EV.

[titaniumbean]

Straddling is not a bad thing or much of a -ev thing if you play your situations well.

this is hilariously wrong, straddling is nearly always hugely -EV and definitely in a full ring game always -EV.

relative to what it can gain in you deepstack games though is it that much?

[George2Loose]

straddling is fun.

[Rupert]

Straddling is not a bad thing or much of a -ev thing if you play your situations well.

this is hilariously wrong, straddling is nearly always hugely -EV and definitely in a full ring game always -EV.

relative to what it can gain in you deepstack games though is it that much?

When you straddle you effectively post another big blind so the game isn't really that deep.  Look at anyones by position stats in HEM/PT, nearly everyone at $1/2+ is losing from the BB and nearly everyone is losing by 15bb/100++.  Think about it, you're voluntarily putting 2BB in the pot before seeing your cards.  If you want to make the pot big, why don't you wait until you see your cards and just raise normally?

[titaniumbean]

Straddling is not a bad thing or much of a -ev thing if you play your situations well.

this is hilariously wrong, straddling is nearly always hugely -EV and definitely in a full ring game always -EV.

relative to what it can gain in you deepstack games though is it that much?

When you straddle you effectively post another big blind so the game isn't really that deep.  Look at anyones by position stats in HEM/PT, nearly everyone at $1/2+ is losing from the BB and nearly everyone is losing by 15bb/100++.  Think about it, you're voluntarily putting 2BB in the pot before seeing your cards.  If you want to make the pot big, why don't you wait until you see your cards and just raise normally?

Yeah I am aware of this.

HEM tracks the hands played online, in aggressive online games with other people playing well.

Live play is so bad though, I think you can definitely make it up in different ways.

People limp in still on the straddle but dont see the effect the blind has on relative stack size. This allows us to pump the pot pre and push out alot of dead money some % of the time. Others we can just check in. The effect on stack to pot ratio means it's also easier to value town people and stack them with bet bet bet lines easier.

I think this particularly applies in the 1/2 game because it is uncapped and can sometimes play so deep esp on deepstack weekends.

[ScottMGee]

When you straddle you effectively post another big blind so the game isn't really that deep.  Look at anyones by position stats in HEM/PT, nearly everyone at $1/2+ is losing from the BB and nearly everyone is losing by 15bb/100++.  Think about it, you're voluntarily putting 2BB in the pot before seeing your cards.  If you want to make the pot big, why don't you wait until you see your cards and just raise normally?

+1, voluntarily putting 2BB in the pot out of position must be -ve.

[titaniumbean]

When you straddle you effectively post another big blind so the game isn't really that deep.  Look at anyones by position stats in HEM/PT, nearly everyone at $1/2+ is losing from the BB and nearly everyone is losing by 15bb/100++.  Think about it, you're voluntarily putting 2BB in the pot before seeing your cards.  If you want to make the pot big, why don't you wait until you see your cards and just raise normally?

+1, voluntarily putting 2BB in the pot out of position must be -ve.

No specifically doing it is -ev.

but it has other knock on effects where I think you must be able to make up for it. You're playing against players who when you raise their blind from a steal position show you how bad their hand is to justify just folding.

[paulhouk03]

straddling is awesome puts the donks off their games soo much its unbelieveable. not too sure if its doable with a table full of good players.

but

i dont think i can find a fold here

[Royal Flush]

obv straddling in a vacuum is -ev however the meta impacts are a huge benefit, having said that i only straddle in PLO.

[Mitch]

Straddling at DTD is deff a benefit if you know how to use it properly, especially with the right image. With the 1/2 games being so deep and played like 2/5 for most of the time, players are consistantly making redic spwes in these situations. Its not uncommon for players to limp huge hands from the SB to 'teach u a lesson' when u raise what they think is ATC. If you manage to check and flop a dirty 2 pair against someones aces they arent folding if you had their first born at gun point and usually have their hand pretty face up by the turn OOP in an escalated pot.

Obv it all depends on stack sizes, and although i pretty much straddle 90% of the time, im not going to do it with 4 players sat on my left with pre flop shoving stacks.