Angle shooting at its worst - That Roland De Wolfe incident

[outragous76]

Kev you are 100% correct and I agree. The info is one of a wider point.

I even think he hit the river which fell a jack, cause he hadn't left the table and he looked horrified when the J fell!!!

[AndrewT]

I agree his hand should be dead, as he mucked it. But I'm sure I've heard of a rule used in some places that an all-in hand can't be mucked and can be retrieved and turned over (which is stupid).

Just like Roland's hand - the intention was clearly to muck without tabling so let the player do that. They can't then unmuck it once they see it's not a loser.

[Ironside]

I agree his hand should be dead, as he mucked it. But I'm sure I've heard of a rule used in some places that an all-in hand can't be mucked and can be retrieved and turned over (which is stupid).

Just like Roland's hand - the intention was clearly to muck without tabling so let the player do that. They can't then unmuck it once they see it's not a loser.

that would lead to too many angle shoots when jimmy mucks his hand with zero outs and claims his hand was something which would have outs in the hope that the cards his claims are in the muck, after all nearly half the decks in there

[poonjoe]

At DTD the rule is like most (decent) places, you need two cards as a receipt to claim the pot, or half the pot.

At DTD the rule is like most (decent) places, cards in the muck are dead cards and cannot come back out. There are exceptions to this rule but it will hardly ever happen.

So no it doesn't matter what the board was Outrageous, that guy cannot split the pot with you.

As far as the RDW hand is concerned, Tobias did not sit there waiting silently for RDW to flip his hand over. He actively led RDW to believe that RDW's K-high was no good, therefore RDW mucked it so he didn't have to show his kicker. This is the middle-late stages of a major tournament, RDW is not going to muck his hand unless he is sure that it is no good. Tobias saw the K-high then made references along the lines of 'my hand is a nice hand', i.e. muck your hand it is no good.

Then to top it all off he bangs the table and celebrates after managing to win the pot with the worst hand!

Speech play? come off it this is unacceptable behaviour.

[I KNOW IT]

Level 5 chip dumping imo

[Royal Flush]

lol fine imo, RDW got pwned, turn your cards over son.

[gasman]

Lol sick value bet.

I could never do what he did and see the K8 and think ''oh shit he's winning, I need him to muck, I need to win this pot, pleaseee muck''

The victory slam down of the Q6 is ridiculous.

The final decision is right though, Roland did muck.

[LeedsRhodesy]

The guys paid to see RDW hand if he does not want to show it he should muck what he did, nothing wrong with what the other guy did imo

[doubleup]

Roland pushed his cards into the muck.... hand over.

imo the dealer prevented him mucking.  If that is accepted his hand was still live.

[RaisyDaisy86]

Douchebag play by Tobias it comes to something when the only way you can win a pot is through angle shooting. he knew he was beat after being shown the K and im sure if the shoe was on the other foot he would have been outraged. If you refuse to show your hand at all like he Tobias did then he should have basically had no claim to the pot whether RDW had shown his full hand or announced his hand.

[AndrewT]

Douchebag play by Tobias it comes to something when the only way you can win a pot is through angle shooting. he knew he was beat after being shown the K and im sure if the shoe was on the other foot he would have been outraged. If you refuse to show your hand at all like he Tobias did then he should have basically had no claim to the pot whether RDW had shown his full hand or announced his hand.

Wat?

Tobias didn't refuse to show his hand. He was second to show and immediately tabled his hand once Roland had eventually decided whether he was going table his hand or muck it.

[kinboshi]

Roland pushed his cards into the muck.... hand over.

imo the dealer prevented him mucking.  If that is accepted his hand was still live.

If I remember it correctly, the dealer tried to, but Roland was persistent and forcefully mucked it.

[gatso]

Roland pushed his cards into the muck.... hand over.

imo the dealer prevented him mucking.  If that is accepted his hand was still live.

If I remember it correctly, the dealer tried to, but Roland was persistent and forcefully mucked it.

yeah, I've not seen it since it happened but that's how I remember it

[kinboshi]

Out of interest, if the other player had insta-mucked his cards after Roland, what would happen to the pot?

[MANTIS01]

I think the best solution all round is for the dealer to bang both player's heads together and start dealing the next hand as normal.