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Author Topic: DtD 50/50  (Read 11683 times)
Longy
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« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2010, 09:37:02 PM »

What does Mantis actually mean? I know that Karl Marenhoulz (sorry for spelling) gets called Mantis from the hitsquad, this isn't his acct no? I know there was some banter with lots of different KarlM's and stuff.

No Karl is Dryem on blonde, though it would be epic if he revealed that Mantis was his gimmick account.

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pleno1
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« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2010, 09:38:45 PM »

Would be an epic level.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2010, 10:20:18 PM »

Wow. I've not been around long so before this thread I thought mantis was ok at poker. Oops.

And on Sunday god spoke to the people, from that day on Mantis would never trouble the people of blondepoker again.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 06:18:54 AM »

fwiw i think hes wrong a lot, but his input sometimes, esp in a live spot, is occasionally invaluable. the personal shit on pha makes the very few ppl that beat the game consistently bugger off after a period of time, bit sad really, we could still have bonified etc if ppl werent so destructive.

also, pre is a fold unless u have a solid read on oppo, which is impossible given its a new tarb.



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ALASKAN5IVE
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« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2010, 06:30:46 AM »

peel

The 50 50 is quite a fast structure and its quite early on.

you have a good hand and will always know where you are at in the hand

yo reread this thread - still feel peeling is pretty bad here tbh - definitely a leak - how wide are ppl peeling here if they are with   ??

Having said that I do flick it in here sometimes reasonably frequently in LIVE mtts, but obv v player dependent.

Gotta call PaulHo up on "Always know where you are in the hand" comment - sorry but for example the board comes   to   high rainbow - is the plan to check call three streets here? - because surely anybody decent is gonna get three full streets of value here with a better hand.

Having said that Paul peeled a raise pre with   after I opened the c/o at the DTD £300 f/o last month and won a decent pot off me, so maybe I do not fully understand live unlimited holdem.
p.s. [ x ] Schooled Brunskill.

Surely 3 betting merges ranges here? Plus the idea of playing an inflated pot oop is fair, but your far more likely to win a pot you have 3 bet pre than one that has gone open then you call from the bb. There are abs loads of boards that the original raiser will simply fold on the flop.


Off the three options I would fold, most of the time and prefer 3 bet to circa 3k than calling.
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Sure will fold sir.......
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« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2010, 07:26:34 AM »

we are 45 bigs effective,

I really think that c/c 2/3 streets and not being good is so bad. Especially if the oppo is decent and has a hand that he is setting up a river shove with can cost us our tournament. Just let it go imo.



Fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  3bet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>call imo
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 01:29:19 PM »

I think we also have to consider the structure of the tournament here.

Blinds are currently 200/400-25. In about an hours time they'll be 600/1200-100. There's also about 200 players left.

So whilst this spot probably isn't optimal I do think this is a hand we can play to try and get a stack going.

In a deepstack game I can understand a fold, but in this comp I think we need to be taking some chances.
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paulhouk03
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« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2010, 01:59:22 PM »

peel

The 50 50 is quite a fast structure and its quite early on.

you have a good hand and will always know where you are at in the hand

yo reread this thread - still feel peeling is pretty bad here tbh - definitely a leak - how wide are ppl peeling here if they are with   ??

Having said that I do flick it in here sometimes reasonably frequently in LIVE mtts, but obv v player dependent.

Gotta call PaulHo up on "Always know where you are in the hand" comment - sorry but for example the board comes   to   high rainbow - is the plan to check call three streets here? - because surely anybody decent is gonna get three full streets of value here with a better hand.

Having said that Paul peeled a raise pre with   after I opened the c/o at the DTD £300 f/o last month and won a decent pot off me, so maybe I do not fully understand live unlimited holdem.
p.s. [ x ] Schooled Brunskill.


Surely 3 betting merges ranges here? Plus the idea of playing an inflated pot oop is fair, but your far more likely to win a pot you have 3 bet pre than one that has gone open then you call from the bb. There are abs loads of boards that the original raiser will simply fold on the flop.


Off the three options I would fold, most of the time and prefer 3 bet to circa 3k than calling.

I take it you are the guy from leeds.
I called the raise as i think you was raising with a wide range and you was pretty annoyed about how things were going during the tourney.
I was gonna do a stop and go or delayed stop and go but my hand had some show down value hitting 2nd pair on the flop. The ace was abit of a concern so i just check called. turn was a blank so it went check check. the river was the worse card for you an Ace. This made me pretty confident i had the best hand.
 was gonna check call as i dont think you can call with much of your range if i bet out because you checked the turn.


even you said it was the worst card for you to barrel yet you still barreled on the river.


As to the check call 3 streets with 87 of hearts. Can we not lead out on the turn or flop and fold to a raise?  I think its a pretty big tell when ppl reraise in live tourneys the amount of time they take, amount they raise.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 02:05:11 PM by paulhouk03 » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2010, 02:00:27 PM »

peel

The 50 50 is quite a fast structure and its quite early on.

you have a good hand and will always know where you are at in the hand

yo reread this thread - still feel peeling is pretty bad here tbh - definitely a leak - how wide are ppl peeling here if they are with  ??

Having said that I do flick it in here sometimes reasonably frequently in LIVE mtts, but obv v player dependent.

Gotta call PaulHo up on "Always know where you are in the hand" comment - sorry but for example the board comes  to  high rainbow - is the plan to check call three streets here? - because surely anybody decent is gonna get three full streets of value here with a better hand.

Having said that Paul peeled a raise pre with  after I opened the c/o at the DTD £300 f/o last month and won a decent pot off me, so maybe I do not fully understand live unlimited holdem.
p.s. [ x ] Schooled Brunskill.


Surely 3 betting merges ranges here? Plus the idea of playing an inflated pot oop is fair, but your far more likely to win a pot you have 3 bet pre than one that has gone open then you call from the bb. There are abs loads of boards that the original raiser will simply fold on the flop.


Off the three options I would fold, most of the time and prefer 3 bet to circa 3k than calling.

I take it you are the guy from leeds.
I called the raise as i think you was raising with a wide range and you was pretty annoyed about how things were going during the tourney.
I was gonna do a stop and go or delayed stop and go but my hand had some show down value hitting 2nd pair on the flop. The ace was abit of a concern so i just check called. turn was a blank so it went check check. the river was the worse card for you an Ace. This made me pretty confident i had the best hand.
 was gonna check call as i dont think you can call with much of your range if i bet out because you checked the turn.


even you said it was the worst card for you to barrel yet you still barreled on the river.


wp brunny
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« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2010, 02:11:51 PM »

[   ] so glad i bought 10% in dr brunskill
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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2010, 06:37:28 PM »

Lol, didn't the hand just go exactly as you wanted?

You only decided you should have peeled, when he showed intentions of 4 betting. Results orientated thinking there.

Played it fine imo.

He got lots of chips in when he was an underdog to win the hand, was v lucky to flop the world, and got no chips in when he was favourite to win the hand. Did he play it fine?

Well in that case, we should all perhaps wait for kings and aces then? In fact, even if we have kings we could be a massive underdog, so we should perhaps fold them too?

He didn't get loads of chips in the pot as a underdog, to create a big pot. He got them in, to try and pick up the pot there and then. If he fails, then he is still able to represent a huge deal on the flop, regardless of if we hit or not.

Yes, he was v lucky to flop the world, and unfortunately he wasn't able to get any more chips from the villain. However, there are probably a lot of overpairs in the villain's range, where he may just jam to a c-bet. In that case, we can snap.

To put the hand like you just put it, means we should never play with hands like 78 suited, JQ suited etc, because we are more than likely to be underdogs.

If you genuinely do think there are a lot of overpairs in villain's range why would you 3-bet pre to try and pick up the pot? How could you hope to take the pot down with your bluff pre if you think villain has a good pair? Then you lead out when you flop the effective nuts and say yeah cos the flop has come low he could deffo have this over pair, the over pair you tried to bluff off the pot pre. Anyway if villain has an overpair he will bet this flop when you check. He will also bet with his unpaired hands rather than fold them when you check.

Mantis, come on man. You can't try and criticise our first action, after using information gained from after we have acted. (Lol sounds more complicated then it is) I will however try and illustrate my point below, and hopefully you can understand why your response was kind of trivial.

When the villain opens the pot, I don't automatically put him on an overpair to the cards we are holding.

When we have 3 bet, and the villain starts contemplating between a 4 bet and a call, then yes, I start including overpairs in his range as a likely hand.

I can't put him on an overpair simply from his open, although it is obviously in his range, along with plenty of other rubbish/genuine hands.

So, to say that we shouldn't 3 bet if we think there are a lot overpairs in the villain's range is silly. There are also plenty of hands in the villain's opening range which may fold to our 3 bet, and give us an opportunity to pick up the pot.

Quote
Anyway if villain has an overpair he will bet this flop when you check. He will also bet with his unpaired hands rather than fold them when you check.

As for the above, yes I agree the villain is likely to bet this flop when I check. However, I prefer leading here instead of checking, since I'd try and get the money in now, as there will be a lot of turn cards that may kill our action, if the villain decides to check back the flop/play it tricky.

Dude, my criticism of our first action is due to all the factors I mentioned in my first post. To amplify that first post...you say villain has plenty of rubbish hands in his range and this is why a 3bet is good. Can you explain how you know that? You say villain will fold a lot of his range to our 3bet? How do you know he will? You say cos villain picks up a stack of chips he is contemplating 4betting and this tightens his range. But often when players pick up a stack of chips threateningly it can signify weakness. Can you tell me how you know villain picking up chips is a sign of strength?

Basically you are just guessing at stuff. Hence my post criticising the line...3bet cos villain is weak, oh wait, lead cos villain is strong. It's ok to guess at stuff but I don't think it makes a convincing argument to say 3betting a complete unknown oop with a weak hand, no image, less chips, and an intention to bluff is the best of lines for this hand in a poker tournament.

Well I didn't know that when we play pokerz we should know exactly how our opponent is going to respond to our action. Are you telling me you only 3 bet a weak hand if you're 100% sure you're opponent is going to fold? I, for one, know that everything doesn't always go your way, but yet you should still try your best, within reason, to win the hand in question.

As for the picking up chips, the original poster implied in a later post that once villain had the chips in his hand, the hero thought he should have just flat called because villain was contemplating the 4 bet. As I wasn't there at the table, I can only go with the information supplied by the original poster, and in this case it is implied that the villain was thinking about a 4 bet, but to the hero's amazement he just called. That's why I said, the hero shoulnd't think he should just peel because villain is contemplating a 4 bet, that's results orientated thinking.

As for the rest of your post, you're basically just saying I shouldn't be guessing, because we have no reads, we're out OOP, etc. This is fair enough, but in a tourney when the structure is as shallow as it is here, I don't mind taking initiative instead of waiting around for reads. I also mentioned, I don't mind a fold either for the very same reasons you have mentioned, and a 3 bet is equally as good, for me.

3-bet/fold >>>>> Call
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« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2010, 06:45:55 PM »

Theres too much hate in this thread imo ; everyone is different in poker, everyone has different opinions the good thing about PHA is no-one is always right theres always multiple answers/theories for hands. Come on guys we can't just flame someone because we disagree with their opinion... can't we all just get along Smiley <3
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« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2010, 06:47:11 PM »

Theres too much hate in this thread imo ; everyone is different in poker, everyone has different opinions the good thing about PHA is no-one is always right theres always multiple answers/theories for hands. Come on guys we can't just flame someone because we disagree with their opinion... can't we all just get along Smiley <3

If Blonde had a 'like' button, I'd use it now.
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« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2010, 06:53:03 PM »

Shut up facebook user nagri!





Basically what your saying in your long post is you sometimes run into the top of their range, is it?
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2010, 06:59:21 PM »

Shut up facebook user nagri!





Basically what your saying in your long post is you sometimes run into the top of their range, is it?
]

It's Nagi... and facebook is the one!

Yeah, sometimes... Cheesy But we can also just flop the world like we did... wiiiii!!
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