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TheChipPrince
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« on: March 01, 2010, 11:43:12 AM » |
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Simple-ish one to refresh the memory of all. Don't stove this or its pretty pointless.
Example:
Blinds = 300/600
Payouts are 175/75/0
Button = 1050
SB (us) = 1950
BB = 4500
Button shoves. He has shoved in a previous level 200/400 against us with 23, we had Jacks and held so assume his range really is ATC, he doesn't seem particularly compotent to understand he has no fold equity.
What is the bottom of our range to iso-shove over his 1050 shove, assuming its only another 1350 for the BB to call both of us.
Thoughts please all.
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« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 12:02:22 PM by TheChipPrince »
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The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
RIP- TheChipPrince - $17,165
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EvilPie
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 01:44:18 PM » |
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Look at your cards imo
This |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 01:57:37 PM » |
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Pretty tight to get involved in this spot no?
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 02:12:09 PM » |
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Look at your cards imo
This I had 3 similar spots/situations last night Matt. Not after advice on a particular hand, just wondering what/how people assess their re-shoving range here when you have 30 seconds to make a decision rather than run it through equity calculators. |
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The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
RIP- TheChipPrince - $17,165
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 02:19:46 PM » |
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Are we allowed to know payouts?
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 02:20:44 PM » |
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Are we allowed to know payouts?
Payouts are 175/75/0
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The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
RIP- TheChipPrince - $17,165
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outragous76
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 02:53:49 PM » |
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reshoving is no different to calling in this spot, as you cant pass if you call and the BB jams
as for range
55+
A2s+
A8o+
KQ
KQs
off the top of my head
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 03:04:17 PM » |
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reshoving is no different to calling in this spot, as you cant pass if you call and the BB jams Its massively different if you can get the BB to fold though by re-shoving... |
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The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
RIP- TheChipPrince - $17,165
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EvilPie
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 03:23:25 PM » |
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reshoving is no different to calling in this spot, as you cant pass if you call and the BB jams Its massively different if you can get the BB to fold though by re-shoving... I wouldn't say massively different tbh. The extra 600 isn't going to change the BB's calling range a hell of a lot unless he thinkd we're flatting to check down. Whatever happens if you both call neither of you goes away on any board. |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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outragous76
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 04:09:25 PM » |
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reshoving is no different to calling in this spot, as you cant pass if you call and the BB jams Its massively different if you can get the BB to fold though by re-shoving... its not different in the slightest! I cant even begin to think of a range that he would call the flat but not the shove given the price. And no-one is folding any flop bet if you flat and he does behind. |
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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gatso
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 04:18:49 PM » |
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I wouldn't say massively different tbh. The extra 600 isn't going to change the BB's calling range a hell of a lot unless he thinkd we're flatting to check down
what extra 600? |
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If you get to the yeasty clunge you've gone too far
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 04:21:13 PM » |
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What I mean is it makes a massive difference to us if we can make the BB fold.
The difference between calling/shoving is nothing, I agree.
I also think you'd be surprised how many BB's here would call the extra 450 if the SB flats, but would fold when the SB shoves for 1350 more.
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« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 04:22:48 PM by TheChipPrince »
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The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
RIP- TheChipPrince - $17,165
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EvilPie
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 04:26:19 PM » |
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I wouldn't say massively different tbh. The extra 600 isn't going to change the BB's calling range a hell of a lot unless he thinkd we're flatting to check down
what extra 600? Yeah mis-read OP. Make it 900 for cash. The 300 does make a difference especially if BB thinks we may call to check down. It's 450 for BB to call so he's almost definitely doing that in the hope of a check down. If we shove and BB calls and loses he may find himself in a bad spot so we can defo shove to isolate. BB's range to call our flat is pretty much atc but to call our shove he needs something a bit more playable. To be honest having looked a bit more carefully at the spot I really don't know what our iso shove range should be. Good question. |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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gatso
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 04:36:55 PM » |
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Yeah mis-read OP. Make it 900 for cash.
ok, just wanted to make sure I wasn't misreading the differenced between calling and reshoving is pretty big in that the bb has to call either 450 or 1350. plus if we call we give him the reshove option which he doesn't have if we shove |
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If you get to the yeasty clunge you've gone too far
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Moskvich
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 04:44:32 PM » |
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Do we even want the bb to pass unless we're very strong and very likely to knock out the short stack?
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