Why wouldn't this work in the poker world?

[Masters_Experience]

We have worked within the gaming industry for several years and share many of the player’s frustration with the way U/K casinos sometimes operate. Two years ago we decided to stop promoting events in the U/K as we could not convince the casinos to promote poker in a way that would ensure players attended on a regular basis. We understand that they make their revenue from the gaming tables and that poker too many of them is a necessary evil. However it is our experience that a casino that runs as an entertainment centre providing diverse and interesting events for the general public who will ultimately gain the most in the long term.

We work with many sites and take hundreds of players to the WSOP booking the hotels and pre registering them for all the events, this year we are busier than ever and many players are approaching us on an individual basis to sort the trip for them, so there are plenty of players with a decent bankroll. We asked them what they think was missing from the U/K and researched our Poker in the Pub players as well.

We decided to launch the Masters experience this year as we felt the change in legislation allowing us to do a roadshow would create a great opportunity to have a weekend of poker where the sites could promote their products, players could learn new skills via an academy and the local casino could put on a series of low stakes events that would fit many player budgets. Despite all of our research and marketing we did not sell enough tickets for the academy, we are also seeing very poor attendance in the casino so far this week for the poker events.

I know times are very tough and budgets are tight but I am amazed at the small turnout in a city like Manchester. We have certainly posted enough on forums, facebook twitter etc and have put posters up and carried out leaflet drops and PR across the city. I know many players might not like some of the structure but this is set by the casino, is this the main reason why players will not attend?  Is it the casino? Lack of funds?  Or is it simply that you will not fill a tournament unless there has been several online qualifiers to create a decent starting number.

For us to continue to look at poker festivals we need to understand whether there are too many events and not enough players to fill them. I am confident that the roadshow will grow in the coming years and working with TIPS and other speakers we will create an educational series of poker academies to go with it. I would like to know what poker tournaments to put alongside these events. I believed that Manchester had a large enough community to fill such a small tournament and this is not proving to be the case. Tournaments are not profitable and so running one outside of a casino is not likely to happen.

Thanks in advance for your input

Dave

[Dubai]

Didnt know what it was till clicked on link- so advertising not that good first off.

You are inbetween markets- people that will benefit from this will not and cannot pay £200 for 2 days.

You should either aim for pub players and charge £100 for 2 days or if you actually want to aim at professionals then try and shoot for the hoops and charge £1500 for 2 days but obviously would have to make some drastic changes to everything it is about in order for that to work.

Basically u arent aiming at a specific part of the market. Id just cut prices, provide a buffet, few free beers and let the animals happily roam for a couple of days and have fun whilst not really learning anything.

[Cf]

Is this the one where there was a £200 buyin with the blinds doubling every 20 minutes?

[TightEnd]

did you see this feedback on the other thread Dave?

two posts as follows

acc2020

Went on Monday to play the satellite to the main event. There was only 2 players. After asking about 50 roulette and blackjack players it got up to 7 players which did not meet the 10 player minimum requirement so no game went ahead.After a meal i came back at 7.30pm to play in the 8pm tournament on day 2 of the Masters Poker Festival. I sat in the card room from 7.30 to 8.30 pm and not one person came through the door not even a member of staff. There wasn't even a representative of The Masters of Poker Academy.

The festival if you can call it that is a complete shambles.I'm sure it has been many months in the planning , i was told about it by the cardroom supervisor back in January , but very little has been done to promote the event by The Masters of Poker Academy and also Stanley Casinos.As of Tueday 16Th March there has been no amendment on T.M.O.P.A website in regards to the cancellation of this weekends events even though a post was put up on here on the 12Th March . There has been nothing on the Stanley Casino website too only a tiny bit of text stating their regular games.

I recall only just last October where Liverpool Stanley Circus ( less than 1 hrs drive away )had their Winter Festival which was over 6 months in the planning and only attracted 27 players on day 1a and 25 players on day 1b a total of 52 players of the £500 main event.It seems to me Stanley don't care about their poker.One week later in Blackpool ( less than 1 hrs drive away) the Grosvenor festival attracted over 1000 entries over the week and the cash tables were hectic.

It was the same when Grosvenor had their festival in Manchester last April. There are plenty of poker players in Manchester especially at the smaller stakes ,the Manchester G attracts over 120 players when they hold their cheap nights twice a week.So not getting the information across in a city as big as Manchester is piss poor especially when Stanley's have many busy cardrooms close by in the northwest.

I predict the the Irish open qualifier £125+10 on 19Th march will be a flop not enough entries will generate one single seat. And in the £250 main event there will be less than 10 mostly made up of the Masters of Poker associates if they bother turning up.
   
acc2020
   
Re: The Masters Poker Academy

Another point , who designed the structure of the comps? Can't be a Poker Master.

Satellite ..................................2000 chips 50/100blinds doubling every 15 mins
Irish open qualifier125+10....... 5000 chips 50/100blinds doubling every 30 mins for levels 1+2 then doubling every
                                             20mins thereafter
Main event £250+25................10000 chips 50/100 blinds doubling every 30 mins for levels 1+2 then doubling every
                                             20 mins thereafter
£100+100 PLH/PLO.................5000 chips 50 /100 blinds doubling every 30 mins levels 1+2 then doubling every 20
                                             mins thereafter

I expect this structure when i play £30 , £20 and £10 comps but for £100+ is dreadful.Also they double every 20 mins and not go up in the usual increments like 200/400 then 300/600 etc...

Rant over

[outragous76]

In terms of the academy, you chose the wrong people.

The old guard don't command that much respect. The reality is that all the kids who are crushing it chat to one another and are way ahead of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they could teach, just that they play great.

Like dubai said, you need to define your market place better. I think less experienced older players who almost exclusively play live will be your target audience. Then price and market accordingly

[Masters_Experience]

Thanks for the input, I am sure there are many different views on who will attend seminars and I will definitely take everyones comments on board.

I will be at the trade show now for four days so I may not reply until next week but please keep the comments coming as we would still like to put on another Masters in September and want to ensure we position things better next time. The casino issue is something I know I will have to address and will review accordingly.

Dave

[kinboshi]

In terms of the academy, you chose the wrong people.

The old guard don't command that much respect. The reality is that all the kids who are crushing it chat to one another and are way ahead of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they could teach, just that they play great.

Like dubai said, you need to define your market place better. I think less experienced older players who almost exclusively play live will be your target audience. Then price and market accordingly

Not sure I agree.  Some of the 'old guard' would be great for this sort of thing.  It's not always about getting the best to teach, and it's not always about learning that last 5% that separates the top guys.  It's stuff that lots of people can teach, people can learn a little, and they can take some fun from it.

From the sound of things it's the tournies that were lacking.

[outragous76]

In terms of the academy, you chose the wrong people.

The old guard don't command that much respect. The reality is that all the kids who are crushing it chat to one another and are way ahead of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they could teach, just that they play great.

Like dubai said, you need to define your market place better. I think less experienced older players who almost exclusively play live will be your target audience. Then price and market accordingly

Not sure I agree.  Some of the 'old guard' would be great for this sort of thing.  It's not always about getting the best to teach, and it's not always about learning that last 5% that separates the top guys.  It's stuff that lots of people can teach, people can learn a little, and they can take some fun from it.

From the sound of things it's the tournies that were lacking.

i wouldnt pay what they were asking to listen to their tutors when you can get a years worth of subscription to PXF or similar for the same money and learn much more from better players

[Longy]

I would have thought having big names would be the best way to attract people to this kind of thing initially. I doubt someone like the Devilfish would be as good as the people who were lined up from a teaching point of view but it would get people through the door and sell the product.

The people you are going to attract to this thing aren't the people who know who Phil Galfond etc is.

[outragous76]

I would have thought having big names would be the best way to attract people to this kind of thing initially. I doubt someone like the Devilfish would be as good as the people who were lined up from a teaching point of view but it would get people through the door and sell the product.

The people you are going to attract to this thing aren't the people who know who Phil Galfond etc is.

you are kind of making my point,

therefore they should be more specific as to who they are targetting

[StuartHopkin]

I dont think many people who frequent a forum such as this would attend a seminar like that, correct me if Im wrong?

I for one would rather pay £200 for 10 minutes with certain players of this forum over attending any of the Masters / TIPS seminars. Luckily we dont have to, post a hand on PHA and watch it get ripped to pieces and dissected with a bit of free abuse thrown in for good value.

Surely these seminars would have a bigger target market of begginers?

I think the casino issue will be a huge problem if you cant dictate the structures etc. I know for a fact that one of the big casino groups really do refer to poker players as an inconvenience, and with 60% of the players I think this description is justified.

There is a wealth of tournaments to choose from, and as DTD proves every weekend there are more than enough players to fill them. You just have to attract them with a tasty guarantee, good structure and excellent smooth running.

[kinboshi]

In terms of the academy, you chose the wrong people.

The old guard don't command that much respect. The reality is that all the kids who are crushing it chat to one another and are way ahead of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they could teach, just that they play great.

Like dubai said, you need to define your market place better. I think less experienced older players who almost exclusively play live will be your target audience. Then price and market accordingly

Not sure I agree.  Some of the 'old guard' would be great for this sort of thing.  It's not always about getting the best to teach, and it's not always about learning that last 5% that separates the top guys.  It's stuff that lots of people can teach, people can learn a little, and they can take some fun from it.

From the sound of things it's the tournies that were lacking.

i wouldnt pay what they were asking to listen to their tutors when you can get a years worth of subscription to PXF or similar for the same money and learn much more from better players

I don't think you're their target market to be fair though.

[StuartHopkin]

In terms of the academy, you chose the wrong people.

The old guard don't command that much respect. The reality is that all the kids who are crushing it chat to one another and are way ahead of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they could teach, just that they play great.

Like dubai said, you need to define your market place better. I think less experienced older players who almost exclusively play live will be your target audience. Then price and market accordingly

Not sure I agree.  Some of the 'old guard' would be great for this sort of thing.  It's not always about getting the best to teach, and it's not always about learning that last 5% that separates the top guys.  It's stuff that lots of people can teach, people can learn a little, and they can take some fun from it.

From the sound of things it's the tournies that were lacking.

i wouldnt pay what they were asking to listen to their tutors when you can get a years worth of subscription to PXF or similar for the same money and learn much more from better players

I don't think you're their target market to be fair though.

So what is their target market?

[outragous76]

In terms of the academy, you chose the wrong people.

The old guard don't command that much respect. The reality is that all the kids who are crushing it chat to one another and are way ahead of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they could teach, just that they play great.

Like dubai said, you need to define your market place better. I think less experienced older players who almost exclusively play live will be your target audience. Then price and market accordingly

Not sure I agree.  Some of the 'old guard' would be great for this sort of thing.  It's not always about getting the best to teach, and it's not always about learning that last 5% that separates the top guys.  It's stuff that lots of people can teach, people can learn a little, and they can take some fun from it.

From the sound of things it's the tournies that were lacking.

i wouldnt pay what they were asking to listen to their tutors when you can get a years worth of subscription to PXF or similar for the same money and learn much more from better players

I don't think you're their target market to be fair though.

i know - its old guys who only play live, new players etc - like i said earlier

[Woodsey]

My personal opinion is most poker players think that they already know it all and couldn't possibly benefit from any coaching, as they are already better than the majority of other players. I think most of us are very good at over rating ourselves, harsh but true............