what next?

[Ironside]

you have a top 15 stack with 200 left money starts at 125


do you surrender on flop unless you hit the turn or shove?

PokerStars Game #43200674994: Tournament #307010977, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (350/700) - 2010/04/26 4:18:48 WET [2010/04/25 23:18:48 ET]
Table '307010977 71' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Gregory06 (6666 in chips)
Seat 2: Fishlake (44199 in chips)
Seat 3: SycawayAce (17481 in chips)
Seat 4: kaze01 (19006 in chips)
Seat 5: mrbaquit (58436 in chips)
Seat 6: lynch0408 (26884 in chips)
Seat 7: Ironside (59588 in chips)
Seat 8: CPGR (29261 in chips)
Seat 9: bobs64 (27284 in chips)
Gregory06: posts the ante 85
Fishlake: posts the ante 85
SycawayAce: posts the ante 85
kaze01: posts the ante 85
mrbaquit: posts the ante 85
lynch0408: posts the ante 85
Ironside: posts the ante 85
CPGR: posts the ante 85
bobs64: posts the ante 85
CPGR: posts small blind 350
bobs64: posts big blind 700
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ As]
Gregory06: folds
Fishlake: raises 1400 to 2100
SycawayAce: folds
kaze01: folds
mrbaquit: raises 2800 to 4900
lynch0408: folds
Ironside: raises 16800 to 21700
Gregory06 is sitting out
CPGR: folds
bobs64: folds
Fishlake: folds
Gregory06 is connected
Gregory06 has returned
mrbaquit: calls 16800
*** FLOP *** [ ]
mrbaquit: checks

[thetank]

With stacks as they are check behind and snap call on future streets if villain bets.

Value shoving isn't terrible.

Folding would be.

[maldini32]

as played i shove here about a 100% of the time

[Claw75]

I probably flat call the 3 bet pre and give up if I miss.  If you want to raise pre can't see why you don't just shove it all in tbh.

[EvilPie]

Am I reading our hand right here?

We've got AK that's missed and we're talking about value shoving??

Are we thinking oppo has called a cold 4 bet with AQ and will snap our shove?

Maybe I'm going to learn something here but I just don't get it.

Personally I raise less pre to about 14k ish. Check behind flop and totally give up unless I hit without some serious info on oppo.

[kinboshi]

Think I'm with Matt on this one.

We're going up against the other big stack at the table who's called a massive re-raise pre-flop, and people want us to 'value call' if the villain puts more in - with A-high.

What are we putting him on, and are we expecting him to fold if we shove?

[gatso]

I'm with you matt. was confused when I first read it and was hoping the thread would develop so I could figure out why people are looking to shove. I don't get it

EDIT: sigh, as I post this I see that I'm also agreeing with dan. fml

[kinboshi]

I'm with you matt. was confused when I first read it and was hoping the thread would develop so I could figure out why people are looking to shove. I don't get it

EDIT: sigh, as I post this I see that I'm also agreeing with dan. fml

Sorry mate. 

[GreekStein]

I hate the size of the 4-bet pre.

[pleno1]

I hate the size of the 4-bet pre.

this, made things soooo awkward for yourself now. i you bet its prob gunna have to be a bet call.

[EvilPie]

I probably flat call the 3 bet pre and give up if I miss.  If you want to raise pre can't see why you don't just shove it all in tbh.

Because we've got position and a very strong hand.

Shoving makes our opponents life easy. He snaps if he's beating us, probably calls QQ & AK to race or chop with us and folds everything else.

We're too deep to shove, let's see a flop and take it from there.

However, given Iron's raise size he might as well have shoved because he's not leaving any wiggle room after the flop. Any bet is now a committing one as the pot is more than our stack.

Flat pre is fine here but not necessarily giving up if we miss. By flatting we're deep enough to play a bit of poker and might even win a pot without the best hand.

[gatso]

I probably flat call the 3 bet pre and give up if I miss.  If you want to raise pre can't see why you don't just shove it all in tbh.

because we've got about a million billion bigblinds

[Claw75]

yeah I didn't phrase that very well. I meant if you're going to raise to 21k you might as well shove, coz you're pretty much committing yourself to the hand anyway.

[byronkincaid]

I probably flat call the 3 bet pre and give up if I miss.  If you want to raise pre can't see why you don't just shove it all in tbh.

because we've got about a million billion bigblinds

if we only had 85 tho i'd be shoving

[gatso]

yeah I didn't phrase that very well. I meant if you're going to raise to 21k you might as well shove, coz you're pretty much committing yourself to the hand anyway.

lolz, I read that as 'if we're going to fuck it up we may as well fuck it up royally'