AK early $12 180man

[Longy]

Poker Stars $11+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t1500 M = 33.33
UTG+2: t1400 M = 31.11
MP1: t1430 M = 31.78
MP2: t1515 M = 33.67
CO: t1630 M = 36.22
BTN: t1615 M = 35.89
SB: t1470 M = 32.67
Hero (BB): t1500 M = 33.33
UTG: t1440 M = 32

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with  
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, 2 folds, BTN calls t30, 1 fold, Hero raises to t210, UTG+1 calls t180, 2 folds

Flop: (t495)   (2 players)

Nicked this hand from elsewhere but it is a pretty generic spot.

Thoughts on pre and what we do on the flop. Assume it is the first hand, therefore no hud reads etc.

[SnowmanShan]

c/f flop

[MC]

Yeah, sigh at these spots.

I just check pre a decent % of the time.

Usually we get this pot multi-way and post flop is simple. Heads up and with the I might c-bet here some of the time but check fold the rest of the time...

[Moskvich]

I probably raise less pre, maybe just bump it to 130ish, c-bet good c-betting flops into one or two callers, c/f dodgy flops, hopefully sometimes get value on A/K flops from dominated callers we've kept in with the smaller raise pre.

[Murph1984]

Interesting spot.

I think I shove pre.

By the time the action gets to us the pot already represents almost 10% of our stack.

If you're going to just make a standard raise then it needs to be something like hero made it,like somewhere between 180-240.But I think it is very unlikely all fold to a raise,we then end up playing AK OOP against at least 1 opponent with between 10-16% of our stack in the middle.This will then result in a sizeable cbet being needed and before you know it half our stack is out there.The alternative as said is to c/f flops we don't like,not really a fan of this after putting in a chunky raise pre.

So I shove pre,and if we're off to the races so be it.

[snake_eyes]

Preflop I make it slightly smaller, 170ish.

Postflop in a HU pot on that flop I definately lead out, just over 1/2 pot. Villian will have to fold the majority of his perceived range that limp/calls preflop and with hero holding  we have back door fd and overs, enough equity to make c-betting profitable.

[NoflopsHomer]

I actually don't hate checking pre here.

[Sack it off]

At $11 level I raise pre but maybe not so much, I know its 1bb per limper usually but whether you've made it 150 total or 250 the players react the same.
Raising pre and this raise size brings along a ton of worse aces and worse kings that players would stack on.

When this flop falls I c/f. Reason being; we dominate every hand that folds to a bet and we don't have good equity against hands that call and do have us beat. I think betting into two players to attempt to fold out underpairs is skeptical  (and even then we still have 6 outs, 2 backdoors and almost guaranteed two free cards).
We can't assume our overs are live because alot of the calling range on this flop holds alot of dead outs for us. QT that we are ahead of but not by much means we can't value bet any king that comes, AJ can be in his calling range so we can't bet any A that comes. ie our only value outs are running diamonds or To,Qo ..GL to that..
I think if we bet and the turn brings a diamond it would be a bad semi bluff as we have repped strength pre and betting with two players still to act reps alot of strength so 0% of hands that call the flop can fold the turn so barrelling a diamond turn is just putting more chips in the pot for the sake of it, we'd also be committed to call a jam by this point.

In a higher buy in I would have different views, I think there would be less jacks in the opponents ranges and more suited connector type hands so I'd be more inclined to CB the flop or even check pre to keep in the hands we dominate and proceed cautiously if we hit.

[snake_eyes]

This is HU, only UTG+1 has called PF 

[Murph1984]

Interesting spot.

I think I shove pre.

By the time the action gets to us the pot already represents almost 10% of our stack.

If you're going to just make a standard raise then it needs to be something like hero made it,like somewhere between 180-240.But I think it is very unlikely all fold to a raise,we then end up playing AK OOP against at least 1 opponent with between 10-16% of our stack in the middle.This will then result in a sizeable cbet being needed and before you know it half our stack is out there.The alternative as said is to c/f flops we don't like,not really a fan of this after putting in a chunky raise pre.

So I shove pre,and if we're off to the races so be it.

Wanted to expand a bit further.

Very rarely will we get called by shoving pre.I know we would be limiting our gain to 135 chips the majority of the time by doing this but we also avoid playing totally awkward spots OOP against opponents who we have no read on.

Put yourself in one of the limpers shoes and then facing a shove,a lot of regs will fold pairs all the way up to the high-mediums.Being aware of the standard of some players in these games now and then we will get called by pairs,and even some of the time might get a complete donkey to call off with worse aces or KQ.We would very very rarely be in a bad spot when called.

So my first thought would be to shove.I also think checking would be a better play than making a standard raise.

[Sack it off]

This is HU, only UTG+1 has called PF 

ah ok, well not gna edit my post as feel like my thinking would be pretty much the same

[snake_eyes]

This is HU, only UTG+1 has called PF 

ah ok, well not gna edit my post as feel like my thinking would be pretty much the same

Imo the dynamics of the hand change so much if the pot is HU as opposed to multiway, especially as we are OOP.

If it was multiway this would definately be a c/f on this flop, but as it is HU I think leading out will be +Ev, as villian will fold most of his range. Nice post Longy

[thetank]

I actually don't hate checking pre here.

I like limping with AK a lot but not here. Tough one to play post flop when you hit flop a little and don't yet have reads on whether opponents are donks stacking off with jack kickers or whether you,re the donk and they have a toasty set. I also prefer limping with AK when there's a greater chamce of someone raising behind us and the resultant spot where we can make an extremely profitable re-raise.

I raise , but c-bet after missing is probs tez. I'd want it just over 200 rather than just under 200 as we reallly don't want to flop TPTK in a large 4 way multi pot OOP. Talk about your mares to play.
We'd really rather take it down or play vs 1 opponent imo.

Opponent isn't random after he limp calls sizable raise pre. He likely is doing this because he's a gambler, doesn't have the odds to mine and doesn't care, he hopes we have the exact hand we do have and his bread and butter is commiting his stack to the goal of taking us off it and patting himself on the back afterwards.
He'll have no qualms about raising when the board has 2 or 3 overcards to his likely pair of or something like that.

Odd spot because usually vs 1 opponent c betting is exactly what we want to be doing.

I'm open to the shove argument but I think it's a bit extreme in this spot. One for the 20 tablers maybe.

[thetank]

actually I'm talking bollox, making it 190 and getting 3 callerd then flopping TPTk is certainly not a bad spot

I still make it 220 or so, but my argument for doing so isn't as strong

[Longy]

I am not hero in this hand btw, but this is close to my default line pre, maybe make it a touch less pre.

Shoving pre is almost certainly +ev but is overkill and the majority of the time folds out the hands we want to keep in ax and kx hands. I am not sure I like checking, think he loses too much value. Hence I like a raise to thin the field, hopefully get it heads up or at least get some value from my hand.

Of course having said all that this kind of flop sucks and why pre is so awkward. I think I like leading just over half the pot and folding to resistance, the bet only has to work just over 1 in 3 times to show an immediate profit.

That is my general thoughts, though tbh I still am stuck on a really good line in this spot.

Heads up and with the I might c-bet here some of the time but check fold the rest of the time...

Are we bet/calling because of the extra 5% of equity our hand has with the  , or because it is a blocker and we can rule out a lot of flush draws shoving on us so therefore bet/folding.

I probably raise less pre, maybe just bump it to 130ish, c-bet good c-betting flops into one or two callers, c/f dodgy flops, hopefully sometimes get value on A/K flops from dominated callers we've kept in with the smaller raise pre.

We want multi way action as this what it is encouraging, making it smaller? Once one calls here, they all call to this size raise.