The Best In The Business

[George2Loose]

Great discussion.

Personal opinion is that today consumers live in the most transparent times ever. We rate products on things like ebay, trip advisor, amazon etc, if we have a grievance with a product we can go to consumer forums, twitter, facebook etc and actually have a real influence, and pricing gets scrutinized more than ever before.

As a horse, I think you should completely expect to be privvy to the same level of scrutiny, especially in poker and even more so on poker forums, where the consumers are usually very savvy.

People with no intention of backing probably should not wade in and derail the threads, however is this not exactly what we are trying to encourage when a potential grimmer is in our ranks? Obviously there is a big difference between Blatch and someone overestimating their edge in a tournament, but if we are supposed to be protecting backers from grimmers, is it that bad to look out for their best interests with the legit horses?

If that's your intention Barry but half the time people are just trolling because they're bored.

[ACE2M]

Its an open forum, if you post something people have a reply button. If it irks you what they reply then tough shit if that reply falls in the boundaries of that particular forums rules.

Crying about it, in a published article is pathetic.

How is he crying about it?

I'll admit i skim read it but he appeared to be saying that if you don't want some of the stake, don't post on the thread. Should i re-read it? If thats what he is saying then he's having a moan, a whinge, a cry etc about the entire way a forum set up works.

Doesn't come across that way. He's expressing a point of view just as you are now. Don't see why his is coming across as crying. Just cos it's a public forum, doesn't mean you can say what the fuck you want.

if its within the rules then yes you can.


Why shouldn't people wade in and say its a shit deal if it is a shit deal?

Do those who agree with him think we should scrap all the 'of' regulatory bodies - ofcom, ofwat etc? Someone needs to look out for people.

[pleno1]

RIP Alan Meltzer

[George2Loose]

Its an open forum, if you post something people have a reply button. If it irks you what they reply then tough shit if that reply falls in the boundaries of that particular forums rules.

Crying about it, in a published article is pathetic.

How is he crying about it?

I'll admit i skim read it but he appeared to be saying that if you don't want some of the stake, don't post on the thread. Should i re-read it? If thats what he is saying then he's having a moan, a whinge, a cry etc about the entire way a forum set up works.

Doesn't come across that way. He's expressing a point of view just as you are now. Don't see why his is coming across as crying. Just cos it's a public forum, doesn't mean you can say what the fuck you want.

if its within the rules then yes you can.


Why shouldn't people wade in and say its a shit deal if it is a shit deal?

Do those who agree with him think we should scrap all the 'of' regulatory bodies - ofcom, ofwat etc? Someone needs to look out for people.

Because some of the people who are saying it's a shit deal don't know their arsehole from their elbow. And their motives are not genuine

[George2Loose]

And lol at sticking up for pointless QUANGO's who do sweet FA

[DaveShoelace]

Do those who agree with him think we should scrap all the 'of' regulatory bodies - ofcom, ofwat etc? Someone needs to look out for people.

Wait isn't Greeky PI doing that for us already?

[GreekStein]

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

[GreekStein]

Do those who agree with him think we should scrap all the 'of' regulatory bodies - ofcom, ofwat etc? Someone needs to look out for people.

Wait isn't Greeky PI doing that for us already?

I try.

[George2Loose]

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

This. If someone who is a genuine investor states something. I will listen. I do believe I've lowered mark up before when getting constructive feedback.

[DaveShoelace]

The only way you sort out the trolling, imo, is if you police it by only allowing people who have bought pieces/made a declaration they are looking to buy pieces access to the forum. Logistically this would be a nightmare.

Ultimatley, anyone who is looking to get staked should be confident and able to justify how they have estimated their edge. If you cannot answer a trolls questions, you probably haven't put enough thought into this or they probably have a point. If anything a well answered reply to a troll is going to put you in a stronger position with backers, and I think when most of us see the usual suspects of shrewd backers still asking for a % it is clear that its a good stake.

The chances are also that if you address everything comprehensivley enough in your OP, you avoid this in the first place.

[810ofclubs]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

[George2Loose]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

Post moooor 810ofclubs

[ACE2M]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

You're happy to stand by and see someone buy at a bad price, when you know its shit and laugh it of as they're just mugs.  Cameron won't have you in his big society.

Same for the rest of you, public forum, you take the rough with the smooth, within the rules get on with it.

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

but Flushy is being slagged off in the article with no right to reply, why can't he reply in kind?

[pleno1]

Click to see full-size image.

[GreekStein]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

You're happy to stand by and see someone buy at a bad price, when you know its shit and laugh it of as they're just mugs.  Cameron won't have you in his big society.

Same for the rest of you, public forum, you take the rough with the smooth, within the rules get on with it.

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

but Flushy is being slagged off in the article with no right to reply, why can't he reply in kind?

To answer your points from back to front..

I need to read the article again cos I skimmed before and don't remember seeing Jeff insult Flushy in the piece.

With regards to you saying about someone selling at a bad price - it's a bad price in Toby's opinion. It's a bad price in my opinion. It's a bad price in most people's opinions. How can you prove it's a bad price that won't make money in the long run? You can't.  What therefore gives you the right to say anything?