The Best In The Business

[sovietsong]

What have I missed ?

[NigDawG]

on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

oh dear pab. oh dear oh dear.

[ACE2M]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

You're happy to stand by and see someone buy at a bad price, when you know its shit and laugh it of as they're just mugs.  Cameron won't have you in his big society.

Same for the rest of you, public forum, you take the rough with the smooth, within the rules get on with it.

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

but Flushy is being slagged off in the article with no right to reply, why can't he reply in kind?

To answer your points from back to front..

I need to read the article again cos I skimmed before and don't remember seeing Jeff insult Flushy in the piece.

With regards to you saying about someone selling at a bad price - it's a bad price in Toby's opinion. It's a bad price in my opinion. It's a bad price in most people's opinions. How can you prove it's a bad price that won't make money in the long run? You can't.  What therefore gives you the right to say anything?

Dubai said perfectly why flushy has every right to call him clueless, so no point going over it.

Of course you can't prove it but we all know backing almost any player at 1.6 would be bad business overall and you would go broke doing it as standard.

[GreekStein]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

You're happy to stand by and see someone buy at a bad price, when you know its shit and laugh it of as they're just mugs.  Cameron won't have you in his big society.

Same for the rest of you, public forum, you take the rough with the smooth, within the rules get on with it.

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

but Flushy is being slagged off in the article with no right to reply, why can't he reply in kind?

To answer your points from back to front..

I need to read the article again cos I skimmed before and don't remember seeing Jeff insult Flushy in the piece.

With regards to you saying about someone selling at a bad price - it's a bad price in Toby's opinion. It's a bad price in my opinion. It's a bad price in most people's opinions. How can you prove it's a bad price that won't make money in the long run? You can't.  What therefore gives you the right to say anything?

Dubai said perfectly why flushy has every right to call him clueless, so no point going over it.

Of course you can't prove it but we all know backing almost any player at 1.6 would be bad business overall and you would go broke doing it as standard.

and because it was written by Dubai, you take that as gospel?

Ask Tikay, Tighty or any of the other mods if flushy has carte blanche to say WHATEVER he likes on the forum. Doubt any of them will agree with Dubai.

As to the second part, Toby, Moorman etc could post all their threads at 1.6 and they'd be +EV. It's up to people to make an individual judgement as to whether they feel someone is value or not at any price as it can't be proven or quantified.

[ACE2M]

Its interesting, I think I've had some decent experiance with stakes/backing etc these days, surely any1 can ask for whatever price they want? I agree with dubai with that but its also at the discretion of the buyer at what price he/she buys at... If I don't think the price is a positive investment I won't buy, I think offering an opinion on the price is also not fair because peoples opinions are swayed easily and so if you want to discuss prices I should be done via PM.

For example, when I saw Zimbler post at 1.6 for London I laughed and joked but fair play to him cause some mug may buy at that price, on the other hand Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

These are all my opinions tho and every1 has a different one....

Staking threads are a great idea, flaming publicly isn't imo.

You're happy to stand by and see someone buy at a bad price, when you know its shit and laugh it of as they're just mugs.  Cameron won't have you in his big society.

Same for the rest of you, public forum, you take the rough with the smooth, within the rules get on with it.

It's a difficult one.

Some people are just trolling so their comments are out of line. For example Trigg's comment on George's staking thread. I don't recall Trigg buying a piece of anyone (and I'm not trying to attack Rick here - he's a good friend who may have felt he was doing nothing wrong)  so as someone who isn't a buyer I don't think he should have said anything.

If people like me or Pads, who punt on everyone, or Flushy who's the biggest buyer within the blonde market make a comment, then as long as it is constructive I think that's fine. Saying 'you're charging too much' in my opinion is out of line. Saying 'I think you're charging too much because this tournament is a tough field of people who have impressive records' is absolutely fine.

I think Flushy saying on twitter 'Clueless man makes clueless comments' is a bit unfair unless he's made them to Jeff directly.

but Flushy is being slagged off in the article with no right to reply, why can't he reply in kind?

To answer your points from back to front..

I need to read the article again cos I skimmed before and don't remember seeing Jeff insult Flushy in the piece.

With regards to you saying about someone selling at a bad price - it's a bad price in Toby's opinion. It's a bad price in my opinion. It's a bad price in most people's opinions. How can you prove it's a bad price that won't make money in the long run? You can't.  What therefore gives you the right to say anything?

Dubai said perfectly why flushy has every right to call him clueless, so no point going over it.

Of course you can't prove it but we all know backing almost any player at 1.6 would be bad business overall and you would go broke doing it as standard.

and because it was written by Dubai, you take that as gospel?

Ask Tikay, Tighty or any of the other mods if flushy has carte blanche to say WHATEVER he likes on the forum. Doubt any of them will agree with Dubai.

As to the second part, Toby, Moorman etc could post all their threads at 1.6 and they'd be +EV. It's up to people to make an individual judgement as to whether they feel someone is value or not at any price as it can't be proven or quantified.

not at all, but in this case he's spot on. Not because flushy owns the site, more about the fact that he is the biggest staker on the site and if he wants to say he thinks something is over priced that seems pretty fair to me.

I did say almost any player, there are of course exceptions.

[TightEnd]

Flushy is subject to the same forum guidelines as everyone else, and he agrees with this last time we discussed it....


to the issue at hand, as long as comments on a particular stake are not flaming then I don't see any problem with someone who hasn't bought a piece/won't buy a piece having a say

It's part of the mechanism of asking for staking to be given feedback by your peers and to be scrutinised.

At the end of the day its a free market. Supply meets demand at a price, job done. If not it isn't. That price though is open to debate on here, if debated in the right way

[ACE2M]

Flushy is subject to the same forum guidelines as everyone else, and he agrees with this last time we discussed it....


to the issue at hand, as long as comments on a particular stake are not flaming then I don't see any problem with someone who hasn't bought a piece/won't buy a piece having a say

It's part of the mechanism of asking for staking to be given feedback by your peers and to be scrutinised.

At the end of the day its a free market. Supply meets demand at a price, job done. If not it isn't. That price though is open to debate on here, if debated in the right way

Sir Tight of End has said it and thats that as far as i'm concerned.

[kukushkin88]

The idea that people shouldn´t comment on whether someone is +ev or not because it´s impossible to prove one way or the other is very flawed. It´s what poker players/sports bettors do all the time. We use all the available information to make an informed decision/investment, actual proof is almost never available and we wouldn´t want it to be, if it was then our judgement wouldn´t be of any value. Provided an individual´s decision/opinion is well informed then absolutely anybody should be able to post their thoughts imo.

[The Squid]

Theoretically selling action should operate entirely on free-market principles. I sell my action for a GUKPT at a certain mark-up, if I sell out quickly and hassle free the next time I sell for a similar event I charge more. I would continue pushing the price higher until I have trouble selling my action, or until it doesn't sell at all.

In reality this is not how it functions for myself or the majority of poker players who sell action on a regular basis. I'm savvy enough to know that when other players by my action it's not just because of my ruthlessly agressive style and incredible hand-reading skills. It is often as much to do with fellow poker-players and enthusiasts wanting to play a small role in supporting my career. Sure players buy each others action for a bit of a sweat and as an extra revenue stream. More importantly though, it serves to strengthen bonds of friendship and solidarity between people working in a seemingly individualistic industry. I have no doubt that when I sell for an EPT my friends who buy up my action do so as much as means of encouragement and of expressing their faith in me as for its likely financial return. More established and secure pros and recreational players buying the action in upcoming players under-rolled for a big event is just one of the ways that we support other members of our community.

If I sell my action in an event quickly it's because I'm lucky to have good friends who want to see me do well. I wouldn't mug them off by snap raising the price because they oversubscribed the last time I sold action. I try and sell at roughly the going rate for a player who has my experience and my results. The reason it causes consternation amongst the community when someone does sell at sooo much above the going rate is because the network of buyers and sellers do feel they're being subjected to the most unfettered free-marketeering and the communities trust is being violated.

This post could be loosely summarised as a plea for those selling to exercise a measure of self-control and not to be blindly market orientated in their approach to selling. As in so many things in poker Pab offers a great example for us all where despite his incredible success in the game he approached selling shares in himself with incredible humility and a marvellous respect for his investors money. However, my post wouldn't be complete with out a word about those investing. Selling and buying shares in an event is, of course, pretty standard these days. Nonetheless, to come out and ask for backing on a public forum isn't an easy thing and exposes a player to a certain vulnerability. Other players who might offer future investment opportunities study the tone and content of replies by potential stakers and are certain to be put off by excessively harsh or blunt responses. No-one likes to admit they don't have the money just to buy themselves in to an EPT or GUKPT even though we know this is the situation of the majority of players. It is not always worth publicly flaming someone for selling at a percentage point higher than you think they should. The backing and staking market will operate most successfully if tact, honesty and generosity are placed at the heart of our working practice.        

[TightEnd]

Theoretically selling action should operate entirely on free-market principles. I sell my action for a GUKPT at a certain mark-up, if I sell out quickly and hassle free the next time I sell for a similar event I charge more. I would continue pushing the price higher until I have trouble selling my action, or until it doesn't sell at all.

In reality this is not how it functions for myself or the majority of poker players who sell action on a regular basis. I'm savvy enough to know that when other players by my action it's not just because of my ruthlessly agressive style and incredible hand-reading skills. It is often as much to do with fellow poker-players and enthusiasts wanting to play a small role in supporting my career. Sure players buy each others action for a bit of a sweat and as an extra revenue stream. More importantly though, it serves to strengthen bonds of friendship and solidarity between people working in a seemingly individualistic industry. I have no doubt that when I sell for an EPT my friends who buy up my action do so as much as means of encouragement and of expressing their faith in me as for its likely financial return. More established and secure pros and recreational players buying the action in upcoming players under-rolled for a big event is just one of the ways that players support other members of their community.

If I sell my action in an event quickly it's because I'm lucky to have good friends who want to see me do well. I wouldn't mug them off by snap raising the price because they oversubscribed the last time I sold action. I try and sell at roughly the going rate for a player who has my experience and my results. The reason it causes consternation amongst the community when someone does sell at so much above the going rate is because the network of buyers and sellers do feel they're being subjected to the most unfettered free-marketeering and the communities trust is being violated.

This post could be loosely summarised as a plea for those selling to exercise a measure of self-control and not to be blindly market orientated in their approach to selling. As in so many things in poker Pab offers a great example for us all where despite his incredible success in the game he approached selling shares in himself with incredible humility and a marvellous respect for his investors money. However, my post wouldn't be complete with out a word about those investing. Selling and buying shares in a n event is, of course, pretty standard these days. Nonetheless, to come out and ask for backing on a public forum isn't an easy thing and exposes a player to a certain vulnerability. Other players who might offer future investment opportunities study the tone and contend of replies by potential stakers andare certain to be put off by excessively harsh or blunt responses. No-one likes to admit they don't have the money just to buy themselves in to an EPT or GUKPT even though we know this is the situation of the majority of players. It is not always worth publicly flaming someone for selling at a percentage point higher than you think they should. The backing and staking market will operate most successfully if tact, honesty and generosity are placed at the heart of our working practice.        

and Timmy Mallett Sam you can post more too, please

thanks!

[pleno1]

Theoretically selling action should operate entirely on free-market principles. I sell my action for a GUKPT at a certain mark-up, if I sell out quickly and hassle free the next time I sell for a similar event I charge more. I would continue pushing the price higher until I have trouble selling my action, or until it doesn't sell at all.

In reality this is not how it functions for myself or the majority of poker players who sell action on a regular basis. I'm savvy enough to know that when other players by my action it's not just because of my ruthlessly agressive style and incredible hand-reading skills. It is often as much to do with fellow poker-players and enthusiasts wanting to play a small role in supporting my career. Sure players buy each others action for a bit of a sweat and as an extra revenue stream. More importantly though, it serves to strengthen bonds of friendship and solidarity between people working in a seemingly individualistic industry. I have no doubt that when I sell for an EPT my friends who buy up my action do so as much as means of encouragement and of expressing their faith in me as for its likely financial return. More established and secure pros and recreational players buying the action in upcoming players under-rolled for a big event is just one of the ways that players support other members of their community.

If I sell my action in an event quickly it's because I'm lucky to have good friends who want to see me do well. I wouldn't mug them off by snap raising the price because they oversubscribed the last time I sold action. I try and sell at roughly the going rate for a player who has my experience and my results. The reason it causes consternation amongst the community when someone does sell at so much above the going rate is because the network of buyers and sellers do feel they're being subjected to the most unfettered free-marketeering and the communities trust is being violated.

This post could be loosely summarised as a plea for those selling to exercise a measure of self-control and not to be blindly market orientated in their approach to selling. As in so many things in poker Pab offers a great example for us all where despite his incredible success in the game he approached selling shares in himself with incredible humility and a marvellous respect for his investors money. However, my post wouldn't be complete with out a word about those investing. Selling and buying shares in a n event is, of course, pretty standard these days. Nonetheless, to come out and ask for backing on a public forum isn't an easy thing and exposes a player to a certain vulnerability. Other players who might offer future investment opportunities study the tone and contend of replies by potential stakers andare certain to be put off by excessively harsh or blunt responses. No-one likes to admit they don't have the money just to buy themselves in to an EPT or GUKPT even though we know this is the situation of the majority of players. It is not always worth publicly flaming someone for selling at a percentage point higher than you think they should. The backing and staking market will operate most successfully if tact, honesty and generosity are placed at the heart of our working practice.        

1.8 imo.

[GreekStein]

Flushy is subject to the same forum guidelines as everyone else, and he agrees with this last time we discussed it....


to the issue at hand, as long as comments on a particular stake are not flaming then I don't see any problem with someone who hasn't bought a piece/won't buy a piece having a say

It's part of the mechanism of asking for staking to be given feedback by your peers and to be scrutinised.

At the end of the day its a free market. Supply meets demand at a price, job done. If not it isn't. That price though is open to debate on here, if debated in the right way

Sir Tight of End has said it and thats that as far as i'm concerned.

yeh, he agreed with exactly with what im saying so that IS that.

[ACE2M]

Flushy is subject to the same forum guidelines as everyone else, and he agrees with this last time we discussed it....


to the issue at hand, as long as comments on a particular stake are not flaming then I don't see any problem with someone who hasn't bought a piece/won't buy a piece having a say

It's part of the mechanism of asking for staking to be given feedback by your peers and to be scrutinised.

At the end of the day its a free market. Supply meets demand at a price, job done. If not it isn't. That price though is open to debate on here, if debated in the right way

Sir Tight of End has said it and thats that as far as i'm concerned.

yeh, he agreed with exactly with what im saying so that IS that.

Whatever. Hope a lizard gets in your bed tonight.

[action man]

Flushy is subject to the same forum guidelines as everyone else, and he agrees with this last time we discussed it....


to the issue at hand, as long as comments on a particular stake are not flaming then I don't see any problem with someone who hasn't bought a piece/won't buy a piece having a say

It's part of the mechanism of asking for staking to be given feedback by your peers and to be scrutinised.

At the end of the day its a free market. Supply meets demand at a price, job done. If not it isn't. That price though is open to debate on here, if debated in the right way

Sir Tight of End has said it and thats that as far as i'm concerned.

yeh, he agreed with exactly with what im saying so that IS that.

Cos havent you got enough on with easy women and cheap beer in thailand?
I buy quite a bit on facebook, and would have bought in george if I thought the price was reasonable.
Im under it at the mo, but when im not im always looking to buy pieces at a good value price.

[Pab]

Pab selling at 1.0 is absurd in the other direction because he probably is +ev at 1.6 (unless he 6b folds the best hand to Benny again)

at least it wasnt on the TV table, phew