Prose from a Poshboy

[Honeybadger]

This is my take on the hit and run issue:

In theory you are perfectly within your rights to hit and run. Depending on exactly how (and how regularly) it is done, it is often considered bad etiquette though. If you are regularly leaving a game early when winning (or as soon as the main fish is bust) and your departure leaves the games short-handed and struggling - well expect people to get a little annoyed with you after you have done it a few times. If you decide to 'book a win' as a one off because you have been on a terrible run, and this is not your normal style, well usually noone will be bothered. But you could just choose to ignore all this and leave whenever you want - according to the rules it is up to you if you want to hit and run. Try and do it with a bit of class though (leaving the game but moving to play in a smaller game is not especially classy!).

However... you also have to look at the bigger picture imo. You are aspiring to be a regular in the 1/2 (and eventually 2/5) games at DTD. And presumably you are aspiring to be a winning regular too. In my opinion, this gives you a responsibility to follow a slightly different code of conduct. As a regular (winning) player in the game you have a shared responsibility with the other regular winners to help nurture and sustain the games in which you play. This can mean a lot of things, but one of them is that you should try to stay in a short-handed game for as long as possible and as often as possible. It also means you should be prepared to sit down and get a game started even if it is temporarily short handed. It also means you should not cherry pick line ups, and should be prepared to play with anyone. There are tons of other responsibilities that winning regulars need to make sure they fulfil. Otherwise they might find that in 6 months time they don't have a regular game any more.

Your situation is a bit difficult because you are just starting out, and have not yet established yourself as a long-term winning regular. So you do not yet have the full onus on you to nurture and sustain the games. But it is something that you need to start thinking about now, so that you are ready and able to fulfil your responsibilities when you do start thinking of yourself as a long-term winning regular.

[George2Loose]

And what about the times Alex loses his 1.2k? You're gonna say "well done mate- u did the right thing. Thanks for following poker etiquette"

He wasn't being a rat- the game got too big for him. Maybe you can question the fact he's sat down there in the first place but it's entirely up to him

I follow protocol, fair play and etiquette but in this case I can count so many times where I've done pretty well at 1/2 and then got into a stupid ridic pot or been coolered and lost the lot.

[KarmaDope]

The way I read Alex's post was that he left the 1/2 table to book a win. He then sat in the .5/1 game to chill and have a laugh with his mates. Sounds to me like he wasn't playing properly in the .5/1 game and was chilling before leaving.

I dont know Alex personally but etiquette or not, it's well known that if you don't feel you have a edge, then get up and play a game you do have an edge in. Alex is making out he's scared money sat that deep. His edge is gone and he becomes the fish, for lack of a better word. Why stay in this game?

[paulhouk03]

I hate hit and runners. I remeber doubling a guy up within the first 5 hands of a new table. He insta went for a walk but left his stack there for 1 hour and 40 mins

Life tilting

he left for so long the supervisor took he stack off the table

[George2Loose]

I do make a distinction between hit/running and what Alex is doing.

[dik9]

I have asked other supervisors the other week to consider or at least to discuss an etiquette guide to cash games at DTD (minimum 3 hands notice preferred 30 minute notice) to leave a game when up. Obviously no notice required if down. I personally hate hit and runners and they do nothing for regular cash games apart from harm them.
Especially the 3 hand variety that play cash during a 10 minute tourny break. I understand the arguement that they can just as easily lose, but the max they usually lose is £50ish whereas they can clean a table out by pushing blind for 2 or 3 hands and getting lucky.

How do you know if a player is up or down?

Cuz we give the chips out and have a rough idea lol especially in capped games. tbh this mostly happens at the 50/1 game but still happens on games of higher buy-ins, as we are supposed to control the seating we can see who's where and who's swapping games to siphon.

[George2Loose]

U can't set rules for cash games like this unless you do feeder tables which just becomes a nonsense.

However I can see others point of view if Alex has stepped down even if it is to piss about. This is why online>live. U can do wtf you want.

[Mitch]

And what about the times Alex loses his 1.2k? You're gonna say "well done mate- u did the right thing. Thanks for following poker etiquette"

Its not about that, if your happy with your profit and want to lock the win fine, go home, but your just pissing off the people who are losing in the other game if you move down. Like i said before, if it was the other way round and you wanted to try and win your money back you would be tilted.

Honeybadger makes some good points in his post about having some sort of responsibilty as a reg to keep games going and setting an example. Were gonna have a shit club if all the new players follow your example of locking wins all the time and moving to the .50/1because thats what they see you do.

[Honeybadger]

However I can see others point of view if Alex has stepped down even if it is to piss about. This is why online>live. U can do wtf you want.

This is not actually true. As soon as you get above 400NL, the regs have to work hard to help start and sustain games. They have to be prepared to play with each other for a while in order to keep tables running. This is especially the case at the higher levels, $25/$50 and above. If it were not for a group of regs prepared to sit and play with each other (and not sit out as soon as the one fish has busted) then there would simply not be any tables running at all. And thus there would be no high stakes tables for the recreational players to sit at. Fish do not tend to start tables themselves.

This was one of the problems that people had with leatherass back in the day. People complained that he was a big winner in the games but he was not doing his bit to help nurture the games. He'd rarely start tables, he'd buy in for exactly the amount the fish had in front of him, he'd leave as soon as the fish left etc. Now on the one hand someone could say "Hey man, game selection is important. Why should I sit with two other regs and play short-handed now the fish has left, I'll wait till another fish sits." On the other hand, if every reg followed this philosophy then there would be no games running when the fish logs on to play, so he'd simply leave.

Even at smaller stakes this sort of thing is important. I am continually surprised by the fact that so many regulars sit out as soon as the fish sits out. It's embarrassing really. But the thing is... after 5 mins the fish comes back from the toilet or wherever, and sees everyone sitting out so he just leaves. Or if he sits in, and then sees 5 regs snap sit back in themselves... well it looks pretty bad doesn't it? Even at small stakes the online games are getting tougher and tougher all the time. Every reg needs to take a responsibility for nurturing the games, and not tapping the glass.

[kinboshi]

I do make a distinction between hit/running and what Alex is doing.

There's a massive difference between hit/running and what Alex is doing.  Completely separate issues.

[dik9]

I do make a distinction between hit/running and what Alex is doing.

There's a massive difference between hit/running and what Alex is doing.  Completely separate issues.

If it was a capped game then i don't agree, however if people are pulling up £1k-£2 then i can understand, it does depend on how much he was in for in the first place tbh,

Personally, if someone gives notice then they have followed the correct etiquette, they can sit and fold every hand as far as i am concerned. This doesn't leave me with the bitter taste of someone scooping a pot and shoving it directly into their pocket whilst saying "Nice playing with you chaps" and then hanging around or dropping stakes.

[outragous76]

There are 2 problems with what he does

1. Alex is a reg in the games and really needs to uphold his integrity in them  - therefore book the win if you want but go to the bar (or home).

2. People who dont know him (and i guess those who do), wont take kindly to him sitting at the .5/1 and see it as a hit a run (or whatever) - locking up "their" money.


To be honest - I would have no problem with DTD implementing a rule where you cant drop down games (unless forced by table breaking)

[smashedagain]

I do make a distinction between hit/running and what Alex is doing.

how many times have you ever been up from a game and gone and sat at a smaller game... bet it rhymes with BUN. thats what puts you in a very small group of players including julian and liam. x

[kinboshi]

I was at on a 1/2 game the other week, and a pretty poor player had managed to luckbox a few pots (including one with Alex).  I think he even stuck one in Mitch's eye, but might be wrong.  It was a matter of time before there was a redistribution of his wealth, and everyone else at the table had him in their sights.

That was until the 2/5 table was opened and Mitch, who was on the list for it, left the table when Simon came to tell him it was starting.  Then Simon turned to the 'luckbox' and asked if he wanted to join the 2/5 table as well, and he said "yeah, why not" and took all his 'hard won' cash to the other table where it was pretty swiftly re-homed.  Thanks very much Simon

[kinboshi]

I do make a distinction between hit/running and what Alex is doing.

how many times have you ever been up from a game and gone and sat at a smaller game... bet it rhymes with BUN. thats what puts you in a very small group of players including julian and liam. x

Julian left the 1/2 table on that same night to play on another one that was 'less tough'.  I have no idea if he was up or down (he had a decent stack in front of him), but the table he left was a tough one (except for the fish in seat 3 ) and why sit there for x number of hours struggling when there's a another table available to play on that looks a lot softer?

Alex didn't hit and run.  Neither did Julian.  I don't see a difference in what they did, and neither did anything 'wrong'.