Prose from a Poshboy

[pleno1]

Sorry for the replies, was 6 tabling HU SNG's and it is quite difficult to keep up and continue to reply whilst worrying about my tone etc

Anyway, most of the stuff I said I generally stand by and think its all quite obvious stuff.

@ Alex - It's your decision ofc, I'm sure you are right and know what's right for you, I just dont personally see how online differs to live from a GTO stance and as long as you game select hard games are never that tough. With inevitable downswing's, you don't usually get rakeback (I heard DTD removed it recently) wheras online you really benefit from getting that 30-50% at the end of the month

@ Alun - There are so many people grinding online and making a living. Playing high stakes cash or big tournaments is obviously very fun and thrilling but the majority of people who make a living at nl100 would absolutely hate playing nl100-200 live as the rake is stupidly high and you see so few hands per hour. Alex is luck enough to play nl1k+ live and play in Italian casinos and have fun with fun Spaniards, generally though live poker is painfully boring and the reason why most people use headphones/ipads. I really do disagree with you about the comments around players being here in X years and think the retention of professional online players to professional live players is alot higher and there are alot more of them. If for example you took everybody off blonde and they got good coaching/left their job/fit their life around poker I'd say the chance of them surviving online vs live would be alot lot higher for so many reasons

@ Giveyourcash - If you cant find 6 600nl games that are beatable for around 2.3bb/100 where you can get 50% rakeback (after rake races/bonuses etc, this is normally alot higher with first deposit bonus etc) then you must really not be doing the obvious stuff and could probably hire a coach to help you with all of this. I'd personally be happy to accept a $ fee if I could make this available for you.


Playing in big juicy pots against fish is what turns us all on, it happens live and playing with the chips is cool, but jsut get some next to your desk and riffle while you reguarly play these pots ALOT MORE OFTEN. You play more table,s more hands blah blah so theres going to be more chances that you can play big pots.

I think of poker as lots and lots of mini micro investments, if I take a shot in a game and do a large river bluff its a high risk investment that I believe to be +ev and make me money. If I play in a soft 200nl game and make a good value bet then I consider it to be a low risk +ev decision. I've started looking into trading and I think its helped my mindset alot in this regards and simply online you can make alot more regular +ev decisions and use software to back you up. I personally prefer to play in my pants and watch Louis Thereoux taking the piss out of Americans and spend time with my gf and dogs (they have more spare time on the weekend too) so the entertainment factor vs playing live where I hear the same guy telling the jokes he told last week isn't really a comparison. Although I can understand you having fun/joking about/ making videos with Mitch, Keith (who always bets x6 online) is appealing, but I guess the higher the social interaction live the harder the game for you, although again this is usually determined by how you are running and as I previously said ^^^ variance online is alot easier to overcome purely from a volume basis and thus downswings are shorter (in time wise) meaning that you are unhappy for shorter periods of time = happiness

#lovethegame

[AlunB]

@ Alun - There are so many people grinding online and making a living. Playing high stakes cash or big tournaments is obviously very fun and thrilling but the majority of people who make a living at nl100 would absolutely hate playing nl100-200 live as the rake is stupidly high and you see so few hands per hour. Alex is luck enough to play nl1k+ live and play in Italian casinos and have fun with fun Spaniards, generally though live poker is painfully boring and the reason why most people use headphones/ipads. I really do disagree with you about the comments around players being here in X years and think the retention of professional online players to professional live players is alot higher and there are alot more of them. If for example you took everybody off blonde and they got good coaching/left their job/fit their life around poker I'd say the chance of them surviving online vs live would be alot lot higher for so many reasons

#lovethegame

Mate I think you've totally missed the point of what I was trying to say. Before we start I think pretty much everything you've said there is spot on. BUT...

I was saying FOR ALEX playing live is obviously +LIFE EV so let him take the financial hit and don't try and persuade him of the riches he's missing out on online.

I would NEVER try and persuade you to play live. You clearly lovethegame online and all power to you. I could tell those years back how passionate you were about the game. Enjoy it and absolutely make as much cash as you can while that passion lasts. Maybe it lasts a lifetime. Who knows? But by focusing on playing the game the way YOU enjoy it and not just chasing the almighty dollar/euro/yuan you are much much more likely to be lovethegameforlife

It's so so important in life to do something that makes you happy if you can. Most people don't get that chance. Talking about viewing poker as work and grinding out the most money possible and making value judgements solely based on bb/100 is in my personal view fecking insane. Life is long and happiness is hard to find. Do everything you can to maximise your LIFE EV.

I totally agree that on average players are likely to build a career out of online than live. It's just not even a debate. On average. That doesn't mean it's always the case for everyone.

Different people are different. True story

[CHIPPYMAN]

why cant you enjoy online? alex even uses an ipad alot of the time right? playing online and watching a movie/getting your nuts sucked off your gf >> talking to sweaty degens who have told you the same stories for the past 3 months.

Can u really play online and get ur nuts suck off by ur gf?
Can u teach me pls . I found it difficult to play 3/4 tables and watch tv
at same time , mine get my nuts suck! Teach me pls. Ty

[titaniumbean]

why cant you enjoy online? alex even uses an ipad alot of the time right? playing online and watching a movie/getting your nuts sucked off your gf >> talking to sweaty degens who have told you the same stories for the past 3 months.

Can u really play online and get ur nuts suck off by ur gf?
Can u teach me pls . I found it difficult to play 3/4 tables and watch tv
at same time , mine get my nuts suck! Teach me pls. Ty

IS IT

[Woodsey]

why cant you enjoy online? alex even uses an ipad alot of the time right? playing online and watching a movie/getting your nuts sucked off your gf >> talking to sweaty degens who have told you the same stories for the past 3 months.

Can u really play online and get ur nuts suck off by ur gf?
Can u teach me pls . I found it difficult to play 3/4 tables and watch tv
at same time , mine get my nuts suck! Teach me pls. Ty

Your married mate, you know all that finishes as soon as you tie the knot  

[SuuPRlim]

I fucking hate online poker.

Every day I get up log on, get slowrolled, hitNrun, grimmed, no-one starts games so most for the first 2 hours I'm 3 tabling £1/£2 $3/$6 and $5/$10 running like god at 1/2 and doing a buying every 15mins at 5/10 then abused in the chat, get really tilted quit for lunch then come back and do all again later. Head to bed wondering why the fuck I bother consoling myself that I'm getting some rakeback soon.

Still play everyday though (not in the summer ofc) then get to go play some live cash games once or twice a week and have the absolute best time ever.

[pleno1]

I fucking hate online poker.

Every day I get up log on, get slowrolled, hitNrun, grimmed, no-one starts games so most for the first 2 hours I'm 3 tabling £1/£2 $3/$6 and $5/$10 running like god at 1/2 and doing a buying every 15mins at 5/10 then abused in the chat, get really tilted quit for lunch then come back and do all again later. Head to bed wondering why the fuck I bother consoling myself that I'm getting some rakeback soon.

Still play everyday though (not in the summer ofc) then get to go play some live cash games once or twice a week and have the absolute best time ever.

you play ipoker though mate, abs joke network for that stuff.

[CHIPPYMAN]

I fucking hate online poker.

Every day I get up log on, get slowrolled, hitNrun, grimmed, no-one starts games so most for the first 2 hours I'm 3 tabling £1/£2 $3/$6 and $5/$10 running like god at 1/2 and doing a buying every 15mins at 5/10 then abused in the chat, get really tilted quit for lunch then come back and do all again later. Head to bed wondering why the fuck I bother consoling myself that I'm getting some rakeback soon.

Still play everyday though (not in the summer ofc) then get to go play some live cash games once or twice a week and have the absolute best time ever.

I rather make 52k in my chips shop than making 200k online sitting 24/7 in my bedroom.
Live game and tourney r different . U can joke , chatting, flirting, touching, grouping,
wan...king , suck ....ing , eating snd drinking . Online pissed me off like players hit and run,
Online heros swearing and cursing at bad called u made . Bla bla bla
Live is better defo

[titaniumbean]

but live poker means you have to go there and watch these idiots as they attempt to lose their money in the most farcical way possible.

you just have to go through the motions of basic poker skillz.

[pleno1]

regarding bad beats and players moaning surely this is more bearable online, just turn the chat box off, live you have to listen to them moan for hours.

Sam Trickett
13 hours ago via Twitter
Literally can't stand it when people are horrible to dealers.like when they blame them for not dealing them a hand...it's so retarded

[CHIPPYMAN]

regarding bad beats and players moaning surely this is more bearable online, just turn the chat box off, live you have to listen to them moan for hours.

Sam Trickett
13 hours ago via Twitter
Literally can't stand it when people are horrible to dealers.like when they blame them for not dealing them a hand...it's so retarded

Same online when u get bad beat, u will talked to urself " why me "
Why not bad beat him rather me on the loosing side.
What a life

[AlunB]

Randomly was just skimming this thread on 2+2 (standard for my job) and noticed this post.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/official-what-happened-rest-may-hsnl-thread-1198638/index8.html

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,901
Re: ****Official what happened to the rest of May HSNL **** thread ****
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefort 
A word to the wise.. I believe that once you've built a comfortable bankroll/networth/nestegg/etc and have embraced poker as your main source of income, it's incredibly important to make life decisions based on +lifeEV and not +$EV. That's not to say that $ doesn't affect life, but its only one factor and you should genuinely ask yourself just how realistically important it is to you when making decisions like whether to go away for 3 months etc.. In my experience, people (not just poker players) that make every decision based purely on financial grounds are almost always unhealthy (mentally and physically) and subsequently, miserable. I think this minor distinction is integral to leading a "fulfilling" life if you've chosen the poker path.

     

[TheFallen]

I fucking hate online poker.

I get up log on, get slowrolled, hitNrun, grimmed, no-one starts games so most for the first 2 hours I'm 3 tabling £1/£2 $3/$6 and $5/$10 running like god at 1/2 and doing a buying every 15mins at 5/10 then abused in the chat, get really tilted quit for lunch then come back and do all again later. Head to bed wondering why the fuck I bother consoling myself that I'm getting some rakeback soon.

+1.

also people vastly over estimate their win rates on-line (everyone pulls 2bb/100 out of air like its a given) and the number of hands they will play (what online player really puts in 100k hands a month or even 50k? im sure many budget for it).

also most people have never seen true extremes of variance that happens with low (2bb/100) winrates and aggro enviroments online. Live downswings may be annoying but you're never going to get multiple 100 buy in downswings in a row or run 50buy in below ev in a month either (p.s. anyone thinking they are too good for these swings... GFY!).

the beauty of online poker used to be how pure it was. I could play just poker and be immersed in the game. Now if I want to compete with the majority I will need to have money across 5 different sites, spend hours each month  breaking down confusing bonus schemes, spend half my playing time checking for better tables, jumping from any game that looks like it will become bad, bumhunting people, grimming etc etc. I get to play more pure poker on a visit to a casino now.

[smashedagain]

You gotta give Pleno respect. He has a full time job working inthe poker industry comes home has his tea then plays poker till bed time. He then plays poker at the weekends at the most  profitable times. I for one would not want to do it for one week ever.

Lildave n Alex seem to have decent lifestyles and I often find myself being a bit jealous, but having said that I also get jealous watching porn.

[DMorgan]

This is gunna get ugly lol

@AlunB

So many points in there, but it was real easy to say that in 2006 because good players were just printing money and as nice as that would be its just not like that any more. Its all very well settling down and chilling out when you have that bankroll/nestegg but it is much much harder to get to that point now. What percentage of poker players that are making choices on how to approach midstakes cash games online/live have a house or £100k in the bank?

@Ged

Definitely agree that a lot of people overestimate their winrate and volume online. I know that the last time I hit a monthly volume goal was a fair few months ago. Yes its true that winrates tend to be pretty low but it is still possible to win at 2-3bbs/100 or more at midstakes NL. It takes a lot more hard work than it used to, but it is for sure still possible, and if you can get to a spot where you're winning at 2-3bbs/100 in online games, your winrate online is going to eclipse your winrate live. Yeah having 100 buyin downswings and stuff sucks, but poker players have short memories and a few weeks, 40k hands and a fat rakeback cheque later its pretty easy to forget

The last paragraph....imagine you're in the smoking area at DTD and someone comes up and says that to you I think you'd finish your cigarette, wish him luck, get back to your seat, smile inside and think something along the lines of 'lol live poker'. I think you'll do the same when you read that back. We're both far too young for all that yet