Prose from a Poshboy

[jgcblack]

Oooh enjoy Latvia, sounds fun! I'm already looking forward to Mitch's holiday video :p

Need another MTV Cribs video imo.

This!!!

[cambridgealex]

Looking forward to getting my live cash game fix tonight with the weekly £2/5.

It's a pretty sorry state of affairs at the moment. Rarely a £1/2 game on a wednesday/thursday/sunday anymore, and it's a struggle at the weekends, and anything bigger has to be pre-arranged. Tom Cresswell is doing a great job organising the friday night game, and also the wednesday night PLO night has been a big success so far. However, I really miss the week-night £1/2 games and it's meaning that 90% of my volume now is from online.

Which is OK - have played decent volume of MTTs for about 5 months now, and still enjoying it - which is more than can be said for any other form of online poker I've tried in the past (I've always got bored after a few weeks of 6max cash, hu cash, hu sngs), so it's an OK substitution, and is perhaps better for my hourly and certainly better for the development of my game.

But I do miss it a lot and I can't help feel that more could be done to promote the games and definitely feel that the cash games are neglected which doesn't seem right considering how much we rake. I've done 360 hours of live cash at DTD this year, compared to 650 hours during the same period in 2011. Almost half as much - not what I want to be happening, I love playing cash at DTD so much, I really hope things pick up.

Promotion is only one factor for the death in the games (though perhaps it's the only one that we can do anything about).

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

Buyin limits. These have been played around with, and I think they're right at the moment. People have the illusion that we all buy in for £2k in a £1/2 game and you've "got no chance" with £200. This isn't true, but changing the limits, capping it at £400 doesn't seem to have helped that. I think to be honest, 50/1 regs just don't want to play with us, which is fair enough of course.

Cash game life. The main reason tournaments are a so much more sustainable form of poker than cash games. People go broke very quickly with cash games, and very slowly with tournaments. People will only spend £x on a hobby, differing for everyone of course, but that £x, let's say £5k, can be divided into say 5 £500 deepstacks, 10 £100 tournaments and 30 £50 nightly freezeouts. Playing say 2/3 nights a week that £5k will last them 12 months probably, even if they never cash.

Take that £5k and use it for a £1/2 bankroll, it could be gone in a couple of weeks.

This is just the way it is, nothing can be done about that.

I'm sure there's a bunch of other factors going on - the recession, time of year, people might not like the "reggy" feel to the games - we all know each other, have a laugh together. I know for a fact that some people think that we "split the profits in the car park" or other such nonsense. Can't do much about that, we always welcome new players and have a laugh with whoever's at the table. The reggy atmosphere might not be for everyone, but it's not like an exclusive club, plenty of people have come in and quickly gotten involved. Anyway, I digress.

The cash game bonus didn't result in an overall increase in cash game action. I think the bonus was designed to reward regular players, so it played into our hands well - but maybe this is the wrong way round. We don't need an incentive to be there, if there's players there for a decent game, we'll turn up regardless of bonus system. Maybe the system should be designed to attract NEW players, and reward them - some sort of incentive for x from birmingham or y from leicester to travel to DTD. Maybe that's a better angle to shoot on the matter. Will suggest it to Simon/Rob and see what they think.

[robyong]

Hi Alex

I think you are spot on with your analysis. We are trying tho, you just might not be able to see it yet - this is what is happening at the moment to help boost cash games;

1. We are introducing a MTT leaderboard to attract more players , this in only for 8pm evening comps, this doesnt necessarliy mean more £1-£2/£2-£5  cash game players but our comp buy-ins have been increased so its more likely that these players may play higher cash games if they bust out

2. We have appointed a dedicated Cash Game Manager, Tom Cresswell, his ONLY  job is look after cash games, whether than be arranging them or promoting/marketing them eg. His Omaha night

3. We will be re-fitting the cash game area to make it more comfortable, including a High stakes area, which Simon will be helping Tom to set up, Simon will be inviting my contacts to play a regular 10-25-50 game with me, this should being in more players a level down as the higher stakes players always travel with a few players

4. Generally, the Club diection is moving towards higher stakes poker, which may help your cash games. Of course, we will always cater for the recreational player with our Poker league/Grand Prix/£25 freezouts etc, but that's the direction we are going, all this will help your games in time

The worrying thing is the results from Simon Trumpers tour of all UK card rooms, only the Vic had a cash game above £1-£2  in all of the places he visited. One word - recession (which surely we have to come oyt of at some point - right!?)

Cheers Rob

[skolsuper]

The cash game bonus didn't result in an overall increase in cash game action. I think the bonus was designed to reward regular players, so it played into our hands well - but maybe this is the wrong way round. We don't need an incentive to be there, if there's players there for a decent game, we'll turn up regardless of bonus system. Maybe the system should be designed to attract NEW players, and reward them - some sort of incentive for x from birmingham or y from leicester to travel to DTD. Maybe that's a better angle to shoot on the matter. Will suggest it to Simon/Rob and see what they think.

Great idea! If only someone had suggested something like this first time around...

[robyong]

Hi James

We are happy to try any promotions that you guys can come up with. Tom has been appointed to canvass player opinions and work with regular players , so if you think of anything, let us know

Cheers Rob

[peejaytwo]

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

this is pretty much it for me Alex.
ive just had a week in vegas and won 9/11 sessions,but have no intention of coming down tonight even tho im at a loose end.
the games at the MGM had a few good players,but spread over 5 or 6 tables its easier to dodge the bullets. even if there are two 1/2 tables its still gonna be a tough game at DTD,and i dont feel the need to play in a game where i'm 2nd favorite.
its a compliment but a problem.

[kinboshi]

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

this is pretty much it for me Alex.
ive just had a week in vegas and won 9/11 sessions,but have no intention of coming down tonight even tho im at a loose end.
the games at the MGM had a few good players,but spread over 5 or 6 tables its easier to dodge the bullets. even if there are two 1/2 tables its still gonna be a tough game at DTD,and i dont feel the need to play in a game where i'm 2nd favorite.
its a compliment but a problem.

Alex, then there are also the times when the bigger game isn't playing (or breaks) and the 'bigger' players come and sit on a 1/2 game and change the way it plays dramatically.  For instance last week when you, Mitch and Terry came over and the standard 3-bet pre became at least £75!  That will put off a lot of people who are happy on the 1/2 games otherwise.

[BorntoBubble]

Coming from a recreational player..

For me i have played cash games all around the country now mainly sheffield and manchester but have ventured to london and played a bit at DTD. Every other casino i go to i will sit down at 1/2 cash and generally not lose more then £300 as this is my limit for one evening. I have played 1/2 at dtd a handful of times and generally this is because i know the lads that are sat there. You are good players and i dont like to think i am a mug. I dont have the money to have a game with you guys in the hope of beating you just to boost my own ego. I would love to play more with you lot looks like great fun and that is what i enjoy about poker. But sadly i dont have a roll which will allow me to have a £500 stop loss that i can go to every week.

DTD, like no other casino i have been in, has games which i say i dont want to play in, this is generally because the Good to bad ratio at dtd 1/2 cash games is the most in favour of good i have played in. This tends to put me off. I am not having a dig at you guys its your living you have to make it somewere i understand that but i thought i would give you an insight into a player like mines mindset. In all honesty im the kind of player you to be filling 3 of your seats. I wont sit there for ages wasting space. I will try and play but not always very successfully. In an 8 handed game if you have more then half as very good regs at 1/2 level it just doesent make me sit up and go i want to sit on that table

One day mabye i will join you guys!

Unfortunatly apart from attracting more players to 1/2 games its going to be very hard to sift out the regs. if there was 3 tables going i would take a shot at a table which looks "easier".

Although saying this it has made me want to come and take a shot tonight!

[BorntoBubble]

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

this is pretty much it for me Alex.
ive just had a week in vegas and won 9/11 sessions,but have no intention of coming down tonight even tho im at a loose end.
the games at the MGM had a few good players,but spread over 5 or 6 tables its easier to dodge the bullets. even if there are two 1/2 tables its still gonna be a tough game at DTD,and i dont feel the need to play in a game where i'm 2nd favorite.
its a compliment but a problem.

Alex, then there are also the times when the bigger game isn't playing (or breaks) and the 'bigger' players come and sit on a 1/2 game and change the way it plays dramatically.  For instance last week when you, Mitch and Terry came over and the standard 3-bet pre became at least £75!  That will put off a lot of people who are happy on the 1/2 games otherwise.

In my 1/2 games i have played outside DTD average stack size will be between 200-500. Initial raise tends to be 10-15 3 bet maybe 30-40 its a big jump to get to 75

[cambridgealex]

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

this is pretty much it for me Alex.
ive just had a week in vegas and won 9/11 sessions,but have no intention of coming down tonight even tho im at a loose end.
the games at the MGM had a few good players,but spread over 5 or 6 tables its easier to dodge the bullets. even if there are two 1/2 tables its still gonna be a tough game at DTD,and i dont feel the need to play in a game where i'm 2nd favorite.
its a compliment but a problem.

Alex, then there are also the times when the bigger game isn't playing (or breaks) and the 'bigger' players come and sit on a 1/2 game and change the way it plays dramatically.  For instance last week when you, Mitch and Terry came over and the standard 3-bet pre became at least £75!  That will put off a lot of people who are happy on the 1/2 games otherwise.

That was pretty rare, and only because of Terry. I tried to calm him down and explain that this was £1/2 not £2/5 anymore!

But then I got aces and felt that stopping him from piling shit loads of money into the pot was a bad idea

[kinboshi]

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

this is pretty much it for me Alex.
ive just had a week in vegas and won 9/11 sessions,but have no intention of coming down tonight even tho im at a loose end.
the games at the MGM had a few good players,but spread over 5 or 6 tables its easier to dodge the bullets. even if there are two 1/2 tables its still gonna be a tough game at DTD,and i dont feel the need to play in a game where i'm 2nd favorite.
its a compliment but a problem.

Alex, then there are also the times when the bigger game isn't playing (or breaks) and the 'bigger' players come and sit on a 1/2 game and change the way it plays dramatically.  For instance last week when you, Mitch and Terry came over and the standard 3-bet pre became at least £75!  That will put off a lot of people who are happy on the 1/2 games otherwise.

That was pretty rare, and only because of Terry. I tried to calm him down and explain that this was £1/2 not £2/5 anymore!

But then I got aces and felt that stopping him from piling shit loads of money into the pot was a bad idea

I know that was a 'one-off' and more of an extreme example, but it does highlight the issue.  Fortunately, most of the players (actually all of us) were regular recreational players at DTD and it took a while before the table inevitably broke. It definitely wouldn't have been inviting to many though.

Worst bit was that I was card-dead whilst others were getting AA () and Phil managed to flop a full-house against Terry's trips - sigh.

[WotRTheChances]

Too many regs. Having Mitch, PJ, Me, now Belton in every game with regular appearances from solid winning players makes the games a) less appealing for recreational players to join in and b) those that do join in get swallowed up pretty fast.

this is pretty much it for me Alex.
ive just had a week in vegas and won 9/11 sessions,but have no intention of coming down tonight even tho im at a loose end.
the games at the MGM had a few good players,but spread over 5 or 6 tables its easier to dodge the bullets. even if there are two 1/2 tables its still gonna be a tough game at DTD,and i dont feel the need to play in a game where i'm 2nd favorite.
its a compliment but a problem.

Thought this was our housemate PJ posting until I saw this! (he's 20)

As for the cash games, I think they will be getting more appealing to the recreational player. People such as myself, stato and deadman are spending a lot of time playing online MTTs, and people like Alex, PJ and Mitch are playing a lot more online stuff too... which means only a couple of us are generally going down each night = lots of 'non-reg' seats.

The idea of getting more high-stakes games running will benefit the 1/2 games greatly too. The more 2/5, 5/10 games that run, the more spread regs will get. The likes of Alex, Mitch, Giblin etc will play those games, leaving a much 'friendlier' 1/2 line-up. Good to hear from Rob, sounds like some very positive steps are being made, which will make the games much more appealing to the masses.

[leethefish]

Hi Alex

I think you are spot on with your analysis. We are trying tho, you just might not be able to see it yet - this is what is happening at the moment to help boost cash games;

1. We are introducing a MTT leaderboard to attract more players , this in only for 8pm evening comps, this doesnt necessarliy mean more £1-£2/£2-£5  cash game players but our comp buy-ins have been increased so its more likely that these players may play higher cash games if they bust out

2. We have appointed a dedicated Cash Game Manager, Tom Cresswell, his ONLY  job is look after cash games, whether than be arranging them or promoting/marketing them eg. His Omaha night

3. We will be re-fitting the cash game area to make it more comfortable, including a High stakes area, which Simon will be helping Tom to set up, Simon will be inviting my contacts to play a regular 10-25-50 game with me, this should being in more players a level down as the higher stakes players always travel with a few players

4. Generally, the Club diection is moving towards higher stakes poker, which may help your cash games. Of course, we will always cater for the recreational player with our Poker league/Grand Prix/£25 freezouts etc, but that's the direction we are going, all this will help your games in time

The worrying thing is the results from Simon Trumpers tour of all UK card rooms, only the Vic had a cash game above £1-£2  in all of the places he visited. One word - recession (which surely we have to come oyt of at some point - right!?)

Cheers Rob

Lol @ coming 27th in this !!

[BangBang]

Personally, I think there is an issue with the limits.. The 1-2 Regs play as though they’re on a 2-5 5-10 tables and the 50/1 regs play as though they’re on a 1-2 table.   I’d like to see DTD eliminate the 50/1 and just have 1-1 1-2 and above, allowing more serious play by both pro’s and recreational players.  People don’t mind losing £25-£50 but do mind losing say £100-500.

Also the tables are never evenly spread, sometimes they’ll be a 1 full table (Which often breaks when they lose 3 players) and another 2 table of 4 and 3 players, why not introduce feeder/must move tables so they always have at least one constant game.   I’ve also noticed situations where 2 people would leave a table and other players at the table would take it upon themselves to move to other tables in the cash game area without notifying staff, killing the game that they were sat in.  There needs to be more control overall..


The reggy feel to the game is something you get in most clubs but the fact that DTD only ever get 1 or 2 deep games going regularly I think you feel it more. 

I could go on about the club layout/player psychology and other things, but I don’t want to bore anyone…

Anyway that’s my 5 Cents..

[Tal]

Personally, I think there is an issue with the limits.. The 1-2 Regs play as though they’re on a 2-5 5-10 tables and the 50/1 regs play as though they’re on a 1-2 table.   I’d like to see DTD eliminate the 50/1 and just have 1-1 1-2 and above, allowing more serious play by both pro’s and recreational players.  People don’t mind losing £25-£50 but do mind losing say £100-500.

Also the tables are never evenly spread, sometimes they’ll be a 1 full table (Which often breaks when they lose 3 players) and another 2 table of 4 and 3 players, why not introduce feeder/must move tables so they always have at least one constant game.   I’ve also noticed situations where 2 people would leave a table and other players at the table would take it upon themselves to move to other tables in the cash game area without notifying staff, killing the game that they were sat in.  There needs to be more control overall..


The reggy feel to the game is something you get in most clubs but the fact that DTD only ever get 1 or 2 deep games going regularly I think you feel it more. 

I could go on about the club layout/player psychology and other things, but I don’t want to bore anyone…

Anyway that’s my 5 Cents..

Bold bit is one of the main reasons I don't play cash at DTD. Just too easy to lose an uncomfortable amount on a given night