Prose from a Poshboy

[cambridgealex]

Sat with the 3 boys killing time till we go to a 5th birthday party at DandiLions later.
Just trying to diffuse the situation with a bit of humour.
Once again its all down to jealouscy. How often do you hear a bad word against the likes of Belton and Giblin?

Lol comedy rub if intentional! Defo back to your old ways this morning Jase, good to see in a way!

Alex, those 5 points were not aimed at you, it was a general comment about how i find some young poker players attidudes, Neil Channing has great views on cash games and how pros shud behave, he is a player that can build games, win in them yet always get invited back. He's a good guy to take advice from in your cash game career.

I know, but they do apply and is good advice

[MANTIS01]

For all the excellent skills  and collective intelligence you guys have I still find it amazing that you think that having 2 or more of you on the same table is ever gonna be profitable enough to be able to make a living. It's widely accepted what the percentage of winning players is. There are cash games running in every city and town 5 nights a week but if 3 or 4 of you guys turned up to them they would all die within a short time.

Each game has its 1 or possibly 2 winning players, business men who are  happy doing a few quid in, dodgy money who ain't bothered because he has another brown envelope coming through his letter box and the rest are recreational players with jobs and then of course the casino/dealers who never have a rake/tips losing night.

Your business whales are far too intelligent to lose 5 nights a week to you guys and those degen enough chose to play in regular casinos as does the dodgy money. It's very hard to attract these guys away from their regular games and casinos so you must go looking for them.

When you have attracted these types at the cash games at Dtd you have ( not just you Alex but others too) have posted stuff on here like I am looking forward to the XXXX lads coming down again this weekend. It comes across as arrogant and you may as well have written I can't wait to fleece these losers. Even the post about your jolly to the Vic comes across badly to me. You have turned up to Vic at a game that they made you welcome in, not the other way round, and ended up heads with the fish. I don't blame you at all for this as its dog eat dog but do this every night in your reg game you become pretty unpopular and the Vic regs would soon turn on you. A little bit like the time the others turned on you for taking that lad off to play h/u at Dtd. Not only did your mates get the hump he got upset at the posting on here. There is a massive difference between saying you are looking after your game and actually doing it.

As for the cash game being televised it sounds great in theory but once again the attractiveness of playing it will be diminished as it will be Team Eureka dominated. A lot of people see it as just an opportunity to massage your ego.

I know you lads ain't got a bad bone in your bodies but sometimes you need to think out things a little bit more. All the trolls you attract are down to pure jealouscy and they are just looking for opportunities to knock you down or see you mess up.

Don't let em get you down.

You are a hero but I don't agree. Sorry for being a troll. Alex makes the effort to drive across London looking for action on a Sat night. If he runs into a player at the Vic who wants some HU well he is in the business of accepting that kinda challenge. I really don't think that is any kind of hustling. The Vic dude is just a normal customer for any poker pro and Alex being friendly at the table has attracted that custom. Villain is a poker player who has x disposable income for poker and is happy to use it playing this match up tonight. Alex may have an edge but there is no guarantee, this sting stuff makes it sound like Steve McQueen in the movies. And being social at the table is not false because it's ok and normal to enjoy your job. If he goes playing away from home on his own then fair play for bashing up the opposition, then getting handshakes at the end. Seems like the perfect performance all round.

Actually a really good post by Rob Yong as well. Think he's saying the regs are bumhunters.

[RickBFA]

In any business you have to find a way to attract customers and actually go out and find them.

If those customers aren't going to fall into the laps of the pro's at DTD, maybe they will have to go and look for the action?

That's not a dig at the pro's or DTD (its a great place) but if the customers aint coming it doesn't matter how great the card room is.

[jgcblack]

In any business you have to find a way to attract customers and actually go out and find them.

If those customers aren't going to fall into the laps of the pro's at DTD, maybe they will have to go and look for the action?

That's not a dig at the pro's or DTD (its a great place) but if the customers aint coming it doesn't matter how great the card room is.

going to other cardrooms in the 'area'/ closest in 50miles or something... and being polite, clever, funny and win a little but encouraging them to come to 'your games @ dtd'.... could even be 'incentive-ised' by dtd on how many people that come as a result.  If they say "oh yeah that Alex guy and the hungry one... they're good lads, said you have a game....?"

[iangascoigne]

Wow what a fascinating thread.All kinds of stuff flying through my head.I think in marketing speak I represent the 'target market' for the regs.So it might be interesting to get the views of what this customer wants form his recreational night out.
Rob is correct in that if I sit down to play 1/2 mid week I don't want the game to be accelerated into a 2/5 by multiple straddles and huge button raises.As a recreational player in a 1/2 I would like to see a flop for less than £25. When I settle down for a 2/5 I get demotivated when it's £75 to see a flop.Call me a nit,call me a pussy or whatever but if the game morphs into something that I don't feel I bought into I will leave or not come back.I will get my poker fix by playing the comp.
Recently I played a 1/2 choosing not to join the 2/5.That particular night I didn't need the stress.Inevitably the 2/5 closed as the regs had stacked everyone and they then joined the 1/2 with a £400 cap. Within seconds the dynamic changed with small blind squeezes up to £75 in a 1/2. Within 15 minutes one of the original 1/2 players who had been doing well got up and left and the table could easily have broken due to this 'exuberance' which can really give a bad impression to non regulars.
I am purposely not going to name names but the player to my left is a very very good player and he commented that the impact of this group of regs made the table very tough and that is perhaps one of the reasons behind the decline,the young Turks are VERY good and the game at DTD is way tougher than the games that I sometime play at The Vic,The Empire or the newly refurbished Hippodrome.
On several evenings over the last year or so I have seen new faces sit down,get stacked and I just know 'they are never coming back'.

I go back to Robs initial point.Trying to make 2/5 wages out of 1/2 games is one of the errors.

I also agree about regularity.I enjoyed for a long time the feel of a regular 2/5 on a Friday with a mix of players and skill levels.More recently ( probably due to me not improving quick enough) I have found the game simply very tough with to many professionals and not enough 'recreationals'.I also have mixed feelings on discovering that some of the new cash professionals are being staked in the game.As a recreational player this makes me feel uneasy.Not sure why but hey,it does and I am your target market.
With regards to 'cliquey'. I can really see how a casual player could feel this and I am not sure what the answer is.Some of the friendships are very strong with shared houses,foreign trips and escapades.A stranger sitting on a table when perhaps there are 6 or so regs could find it  very intimidating and will prevent anyone wanting to join the game.
With regards to the 'bum hunting' accusation.I think the guys do need to consider how they are sometimes perceived.
'Perception is reality until proved otherwise'. Calling individuals L#######r fish is disrespectful and patronising. Jumping from one table to another because of the value looks poor form and although I don't mind the banter not everyone likes to be perceived as being there just to pay for  someone  car/mortgage/rent.
Eventually recreational players will make their own decisions regarding whatnot do with their money.They will make decisions regarding price/value when choosing what they want to do with their time.For example if I am happy to spend 2k a month on my hobby as long as I feel I am getting 2k of value for the price (2k) I will come back.However I may decide that the 'games' are not enjoyable,to tough,to cliquey,not what they are being advertised at (1/2 being a 5/10) and at that point I may decide to find another sport/hobby.
New to the game I have had some great experiences.I have played a new sport in Dublin,Las Vegas and Salzburg.I have discovered a whole new world that is SO different to my day job and as such so enjoyable.I have had some brilliant fun including playing competitions with my son and cash games with him at the Vic when I have to stay in London.Just recently we used Poker as the focal point of a short holiday in Deauville where somehow he managed to actually win something for a change.

So for me Poker is still cool and gives me value for the price I am prepared to pay ( ps I am not doing 2k a month). However if I feel like I am being targeted,patronised or 'hunted' it will have a big implication as how I feel and my perception of the value I am getting.

So there you go,just a few comments from one of your target market.
I want the cash games to thrive at DTD.I want to go and find a load of 1/2 games,a couple of 2/5's and even the odd 5/10.That gives me the customer choice,the chance of playing on tables with a mix of players and depending on my mood a big game to wrestle with.

Right,now I have to consider whether to book this trip to Riga for the Eureka Poker Tournament.Because IF YOU CANNOT
BEAT THEM YOU MIGHT AS WELL JOIN THEM.

[cambridgealex]

Come on Ian, come to Riga even if you never ever play cash with us again! I know me and Mitch give you banter a lot but I've always thought you took it really well and it never bothered you hence we continued!

Honestly you made the Salzburg trip, and having you on board in Latvia would be incred!

Click to see full-size image.

[RickBFA]

In any business you have to find a way to attract customers and actually go out and find them.

If those customers aren't going to fall into the laps of the pro's at DTD, maybe they will have to go and look for the action?

That's not a dig at the pro's or DTD (its a great place) but if the customers aint coming it doesn't matter how great the card room is.

going to other cardrooms in the 'area'/ closest in 50miles or something... and being polite, clever, funny and win a little but encouraging them to come to 'your games @ dtd'.... could even be 'incentive-ised' by dtd on how many people that come as a result.  If they say "oh yeah that Alex guy and the hungry one... they're good lads, said you have a game....?"

You're trying to be smart?

I'm making the point that if any pro wants action and it isn't happened at DTD maybe he has to find games elsewhere.

When I want customers for my businesses I go out and find them.

[SuuPRlim]

Come on Ian, come to Riga even if you never ever play cash with us again! I know me and Mitch give you banter a lot but I've always thought you took it really well and it never bothered you hence we continued!

Honestly you made the Salzburg trip, and having you on board in Latvia would be incred!

Click to see full-size image.

anyone smoking a cigar that big should be doing at least 20grand a month. come on ian give the boys a spin!

[Killerkilsby]

Yes but not really at the time cash game wise.

It was "so obvious it was cringeworthy" certain people were cheating in a Casino where you worked but you decided not to do anything about it? You then mention it on an internet forum 6 months later. Why didn't you do anything at the time?

It was getting to the point where we didnt know what to do.
You cant prove anything, they could just want to top up or maybe they didnt have a hand when the 3/4b went on.
Hard to prove anything.
They were close to being banned then they left.

[Killerkilsby]

@Killerkilsby, can you  please pm me who you think it was.

Pm sent.

[smashedagain]

Wiiii. The play zone now has wifi. I always thought Ian was one of the regs doing the bum hunting.

[LIONRAMPANT]

As a  recreational cash game player the last 10 or so pages have been really insightful , stuff u would never find in a blog or poker book - love the diary

[SuuPRlim]

Loads of good points mixed in with stuff that's taken out of context here imo. Jason, hate to say it but I actually agree with Alex, the game is sustainable with that amount of regs, imo, but as a group, non-collusive ofc, they need to each understand that they have a job to do in the game and that job IS to make the game appealing for recreational players.  I love this diary and think it's prolly done a lot of good things for the games at DTD but it's certainly done a bit of damage as well, no critisim of Alex whatsoever, he's one of the quickest guys I know to learn from errors, it's pretty easy to sit and watch and think "I wouldn't have done that" but when you're there trying to balance an honest diary/your professional life/your #lovethegame it's hard.  As long as no members of the group let the side down and start behaving in a manner that is disrespectful or greedy then the game/lineup is sustainable.

Hate to compliment the man, but Mitch is brilliant, and I know for a fact his influence has been very good on the guys (I'd say I've learnt some things from Mitch too)

A terrific post by Ian, I think people really need to look at guys like Ian when they are talking about their "customers" these people are not idiots, they are experienced, successful and intelligent people. I have played for ages with lots of different people who all lose money at poker, none of them a) believe themselves to be winning poker players or b) give a fuck that they lose. I believe quite confidently in the majority of cases if these people were to devote the time that all the guys mentioned ITT have to studying and learning poker they'd be winning poker players. THEY ARE NOT MUGS. THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO ENJOY PLAYING POKER

This is where Jason is wrong again (everything else I agree with a good post btw Jason) people don't think "can't be arsed paying this guys rent" mostly they realise they will lose over the year, so want to lose the money to people who are respectful, in an enviroment they feel 100% comfortable in at a pace they are happy with. It's up to the regs to give them this. If they do, I think most people are happy. If you do this then you're acting morally imo, anything else is, ultimately a bit of a hustle. Rob's point about the ROE is a good one, mould the game to suit the players, not the regs.

I think the cardinal sin the DTD guys commit is the 3b/4b/5b one. Whenever I play i like to have one rule, suppose someone comes to play a game and he is happy to lose £5k, I want HIM to have a chance to win £5k from me, obviously I'd rather he didn't (lol) but i'm going to give him the spots, and the action enough so if it goes his way he can win as well. In these 3b/4b/5b wars whereas people are going to say "surely if money is shelling around pf with K4 suited then they have more chances of winning" wrong, people will get swallowed up way to fast in a game with this aggressive a dynamic, and I know, because I've been there, my NLHE game is not as strong as a lot mentioned in this thread and I've played in games with them and in Vegas with extremely tough players and I myself have started to feel wholly out of my depth when the preflop game gets very aggressive (and I'm extremely comfortable playing big aggro games). It could well be that for a time the game as it was encouraged that type of play, which is great then do it, but recognizing when it is too much is important and that's what the "group" of regs needs to understand together.

I thoguht as well some of the regs were a lil too TAG when i last played, as in playing very tight, then coming out with a cold 4bet etc it's not really what most rec's wanna see, and neither is it the most optimal way to play. I may well be wayyy OOL with that comment though as I not played for months in NLHE games there.

Last time I played DTD was Rob's PLO game and I love playing those games mainly cos the action is always fast. Slow live games tilt me tremendously.

Need to remember it might be all serious for us but for the most part it's just a game poker.

[cambridgealex]

 

[jgcblack]

Rubbish post dave, completely FOS and i think you're completely wrong and OOL. GTFO

Tikay rescue us please...