Ruling, right or wrong?

[jbsc7769]

I was just reading RED-DOGS Gutshot report. Great read, thank you.
It got me thinking about a ruling that I was involved in that I really was unsure about. I am curious to how you guys think it was delat with / should have been dealt with.
I was sitting in seat 6, I think BB was about Seat 9. I see seat 1 fold, seat 2 fold, seat 3 fold, then I take my first look at my cards (having been watching the players until now). I find a decent hand I think it was AJ suited if memory serves me, I look back up and see Seat 5 folds. I then think for a few seconds and raise, roughly three times BB. (If memory serves me this was about 1500 chips). At this point, the dealer intervenes and said I have acted out of turn. I am somewhat suprised as I saw Seat 5 muck his cards. It appears he also acted out turn and Seat 4 has not acted. I shrug, apologise and go to take my chips back. At this point I am told my bet must stand. Seat 4 goes all in for about another 7000 chips or so and I decide to fold, losing my initial raise in the process.
What do you think? I was in the wrong by acting out turn, no doubt, but no comment was made after Seat 5 folded out of turn.
FYI, it was at the Bellagio. I have spoken to others who say that is not the ruling at all casinos!!

[Karabiner]

I have been in a similar position to that.

It is a natural instinct to act after the guy to your right has acted.

In American football it's called "illegal motion", and the original guy who acts out of turn is penalised.

It should be the same in poker games.

I sympathise, but I am not sure what the ruling is.

[snoopy1239]

I don't think much else could be done.

I do this all the time, only to realise that some guy a few seats away hasn't played his hand yet. It's like a domino effect. However, in the end, it's our own fault as we shouldn't make the assumtion that its our turn. My gripe would be when you're sitting in 1st or last seat when it's difficult to see.

[jbsc7769]

Its funny what you say about seating positions actually Snoopy, where i was, i could not see the other player as I was on the end of the "straight" part of the table, he was on the other end. Not that I think it would have made a great deal of difference to me as I probably would have followed the players lead but, good point

[snoopy1239]

I normally have problems if the dealer's a little chunky. Can't see the last two players. If I'm not 100 % sure if its my go tho I make sure I ask him incase I get a situation like yours. Could be really expensive late on in the comp.

Even so, it's another cloud over another ruling.

[sig75]

I would've ruled the same.

[BlueWolf]

yep from the information given seems like the correct ruling to me too, it is a players responsability to act in turn and you sasid you thought about your raise so you should have noticed it wasnt your turn really. But hey we all make mistakes even you players maybe some players should remeber this when crucifying dealers lol

[AdamM]

surely your bet only stands if the player to your right checks. once he's bet the 7000 you should be able to call, raise or fold. he's had info about your intentions and if he wants your 1500 he can check raise you to get it.

[Karabiner]

I believe the standard ruling these days is that a "bet out of turn" stands, to avoid angle-shooters using it as a deterrent.

Quite right too imo.

[patman]

Hi guys,

first post. We have a fairly decent house game(most of the guys also play casino NLH or PlH) and recently it seemed as if calling out of turn was rife..due to not paying attention.
I agree you were unfortunate and probably unlucky but equally i`ve seen calling out of turn adversly affect the person who hadnt called by someone raising a fair bit and thus forcing a decision on the guy who hadnt acted. To be fair your call needs to stand or it ends up being a good tool for someone a bit cheeky and using out of turn calling as a weapon.
Its frustrating but it forces you to pay attention at all times....although having a fat dealer is just plain indecent

[tikay]

Welcome to blonde patman, nice post.


Here's an article on home games you may find interesting, it was contributed by blondeite & regular poster AdamM.

http://www.blondepoker.com/BeginnersTips12.htm

This may be more useful, "Rules for Home Games", also by Adam, who has run a sucessful home game for some tiime......

http://www.blondepoker.com/BeginnersTips13.htm

Enjoy!

[patman]

tks tikay...its all a learning curve ...hopefully upwards

[tikay]

Hmm, my learning curve appears to go the other way......

[AdamM]

wish you'd stop starting so many of your post "I'm the last person to give poker advice..." in all seriousness you should be happier to give advice. It's a little embarassing when you sometimces say something like that then suggest poeple take advice from far more novice players (like myself). We value Tikays opinions.

[tikay]

I am afraid that won't change Adam, & it's not false humility either. With the (one hopes) wisdom of age, I dont mind offering advice on all manner of things, but that does not include advice on how to play poker. How to BEHAVE when playing poker, yes, but not on the game itself.

Hype creates illusions, & I have had a most extraordinary few months. Somehow I found myself on the TV - very nice - but I nearly died when in the first prog, they introduced me as "our resident expert, & poker professional". WHAT? And I was supposed to give poker tips, & answer viewers questions. I could imagine all the "real" players having a good snigger! Fortunately, I managed to steer them away from doing that, phew. And I am fortunate to write for a few publications, that's very nice too, earns a few shillings. But that, & the TV exposure, does not make me an expert, or even qualified, to give poker advice. Opinions, yes, advice, no.

To add to my embarrassment, the Poker 425 website describes me as "Nottingham legend".....give these PR boys an inch, eh?

The danger is to start believing the hype, taking oneself too seriously. No chance.

I'll leave advice on how to pay hands to those that know better. Remember, the blonde Forum includes dozens of top pros, as well as loads of regular guys. I'm happy to read what they & others say.