arsenal and opta stats

[TightEnd]

In answer to tikay's question, most if not all of the English 92 subscribe to ProZone, which gives them widespread stats on each team. I know goalkeepers use it for example for analysis of where players place their penalties

[TightEnd]

quite liked this

[gatso]

In answer to tikay's question, most if not all of the English 92 subscribe to ProZone, which gives them widespread stats on each team. I know goalkeepers use it for example for analysis of where players place their penalties

really? it certainly used to be the case that most of the 92 didn't have it as they couldn't afford it. has the cost come down?

[Acidmouse]

In answer to tikay's question, most if not all of the English 92 subscribe to ProZone, which gives them widespread stats on each team. I know goalkeepers use it for example for analysis of where players place their penalties

really? it certainly used to be the case that most of the 92 didn't have it as they couldn't afford it. has the cost come down?

fml, i did a bit of work for prozone when it first started in Sheepscar Leeds. The MD wanted me to be their main developer but I went to Uni instead...@(

[pleno1]

quite liked this

incred

[TightEnd]

In answer to tikay's question, most if not all of the English 92 subscribe to ProZone, which gives them widespread stats on each team. I know goalkeepers use it for example for analysis of where players place their penalties

really? it certainly used to be the case that most of the 92 didn't have it as they couldn't afford it. has the cost come down?

my understanding: most use it

[gatso]

a quick google tells me that a subscription was £130k/year in 1995. there have to be a lot that can't afford it and it must've gone up. I remember there was talk about us stopping our subscription when we got relegated

edit: more googling would suggest there's more than 1 tier of membership so I guess the smaller clubs subscribe to much less info

an interesting piece from mervyn day in 2006 detailing how it used to be used at charlton. suggests that even as an established prem club we weren't subscribing to the full package

Match analysis tools are used in nearly every professional club in the country. In the smaller clubs breaking down the previous game may simply be a case of the manager or coach taking home the match video and taking notes of the time of the important incidents in the game so that he can replay them to his team.

In the larger clubs, match analysis has become very sophisticated - in fact every player’s movement is tracked, measured and recorded for future use. Championship Manager’s ProZone is a very close replica of the tool used at top clubs, albeit in 2D format.

ProZone basically gives you the opportunity to see every touch, every run and every movement of all the players on the pitch, either as an individual, linked with other players, or as the whole team.

It also allows you to contrast your team with your opponents on each of the analysis opportunities. With regard to your team’s physical performance, it will measure and time each run and give you a series of tables detailing a whole catalogue of physical data which can be used in many ways, such as planning your team’s fitness programme, deciding which players need a rest, and so on.

In my time at Charlton with Alan Curbishley we used our post-match analysis system for the following :

1 To review the previous game
2 As an individual player analysis tool
3 As a sectional analysis tool, eg. Looking at the back four
4 As a physical analysis tool


Reviewing the previous game

This takes place as soon as possible, normally a version is available the next day after 3pm kick offs and 2 days after a night game. If in a hurry, either Alan or myself would take a video of the game home with us to watch and then confirm our thoughts after watching the game again with the 2D animation. In a normal week with no midweek match we would review the game paying attention to the following points :

a) Watch the whole game in 2D animation with the video in picture as well.
b) Highlight all the goals, analyse why and how they were scored, both for and against.
c) Highlight all Set Plays for and against, check what was successful and what wasn’t.
d) Look at individual errors, examining why they happened and considering how can they be eradicated.
e) Look at the overall shape in each department.
f) Analyse whether both the team and the individual players carried out pre-match instructions, and did they have an effect on the result and performance?
g) Review the passing and technical tables - who did what?
h) Review the physical table - who did the most work? Who did the most sprints?


Individual player analysis tool


ProZone can be used for individual players; this is normally done at the beginning of the week, maybe as a reaction to a weekend performance or in the case of a younger player as an aid to his football education. We used it in the following ways:

a) Younger players will have their performances from the reserve games transferred into ProZone, giving the coaching staff a chance to help them improve by video education.
b) If players have hit a bad patch, it is possible to go back over a number of games and compare to see if they are doing anything different. If they are making the same mistake time after time, it is easy to highlight and try to correct. It is also aids us when giving more detailed instruction to a player, rather than relying on the players’ recollection of an incident.
c) As an individual player you may be given detailed instructions on how the manager wants you to play and what your duties are, such as man-to-man marking. With ProZone it’s easy to see if an individual has done his job.

A sectional analysis tool

When one the team’ departments is not functioning well, it is very useful to be able to break the team down into its component parts and see how each is performing as a unit. You then analyse how each part of the team can start to help each others to rectify the problem. When you begin to analyse each department you would consider some of the following:

a) Defence – Depending on which shape you were playing, back four, five or three, you would look at the width, how deep you played, how well full-backs covering positions, defending as a unit (e.g. always being in touch with your nearest fellow defender) holding the line for offsides, how quickly you cleared the box.
b) Midfield – Again, depending on what shape is being played, whether a winger is playing… width would be examined, as would support play, availability to passes, angles, and forward runs into the box. If a striker comes short, is a midfielder making a run beyond him, do they protect the back players defensively, do they make a tackle, can they get box to box?
c) Front Players – You would look at their movement, availability, the timing and angle of their runs, their ability to hold the ball up and bring the midfield into the game, their ability to play up front on their own or as a pair or in a three, depending which system is being used.
d) Team Shape – Compactness when defending, being difficult to play through. Open out when attacking, make the pitch as big as possible to give room to pass and move.

[pleno1]

We used to use this alot for analysis of the first team when I was at S'hampton

[dan]

Barca are the best side ever, they deserve to win the CL every year. The only sides that would beat them over 2 legs are teams that can just defend defend defend like inter did last year.

I dont care about the stats, Barca owned us and will own every team they play.

I dont believe any of the great teams of the 60's/70's/80's would beat Barca not just cuz barca play better but they are just so much fitter, quicker ,stronger. They are not only unbelievable with the ball they are amazing without it too

[tikay]

Gatters,

Thanks for the Mervyn Day piece - that was, sort of, what I was looking for.

So, in a "Big 4" Club, we assume that the specialist coaches for each discipline - defence, midfield, attack, goalie even, then work through all that stuff, methodically. So, £150k per year for the stats, then the coaching staff, & time. Must come to a pretty penny, & it's hard to imagine a Div 1 Club being able to afford not just the initial £150k, but the labour resource (coaching staff) needed to turn it into practice.

[tikay]

The Times produces graphics & all sorts after each Premiership match, & it gives incredible insight, far more than the actual match report, because I want to make my OWN mind up, not be influenced by the writer.

Do you think the Media - The Times, for example - have to stump up the £150k? Ditto, say, Sky Sports, & ESPN.

How do they produce the stats, what is the mechanism? Clever cameras & software?

[tikay]

The Barca-Arsenal stats were almost as lopsided as any I've ever seen.

If I'm not mistaken, though, almost the identical thing happened last year, in the C-L, when Messi trashed Arsenal in such spectacular fashion, & I'm 90% certain that the OPTA Stats were just as lopsided that time, if not worse, with some ridic figure like 800+ completed passes.

Can anyone verify that?

Oh, & for the record, my admiration for all things Arsenal exceeds anything else in British Football.

[tikay]

.....and finally.

Is there such a thing as a "neutral" Football Forum, devoid of all the inane one-eyed stuff? I can't abide the ridiculous arguing from "home" perspective, but I want to see good balanced football debate. Is such a thing possible?

Think, for example, of The Baron, or Boshi, as two good examples. Two good guys, with great clarity of thinking, but when it comes to football, can only see things from Liverpool's perspective, or so it seems to me. Apologies if that seems unfair, I am just trying to make the point.

[TightEnd]

.....and finally.

Is there such a thing as a "neutral" Football Forum, devoid of all the inane one-eyed stuff? I can't abide the ridiculous arguing from "home" perspective, but I want to see good balanced football debate. Is such a thing possible?

In my experience, no..although some of the stuff in the comments section of the Guardian's sports website can be v lucid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog

Think, for example, of The Baron, or Boshi, as two good examples. Two good guys, with great clarity of thinking, but when it comes to football, can only see things from Liverpool's perspective, or so it seems to me. Apologies if that seems unfair, I am just trying to make the point.

Bit unfair to Baron. 

Must be over 20, well over 20, really intelligent football posters on here who discuss stuff without any of the "Man U are Scum" nonsense that is everywhere

[tikay]

.....and finally.

Is there such a thing as a "neutral" Football Forum, devoid of all the inane one-eyed stuff? I can't abide the ridiculous arguing from "home" perspective, but I want to see good balanced football debate. Is such a thing possible?

In my experience, no..although some of the stuff in the comments section of the Guardian's sports website can be v lucid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog

Think, for example, of The Baron, or Boshi, as two good examples. Two good guys, with great clarity of thinking, but when it comes to football, can only see things from Liverpool's perspective, or so it seems to me. Apologies if that seems unfair, I am just trying to make the point.

Bit unfair to Baron. 

Must be over 20, well over 20, really intelligent football posters on here who discuss stuff without any of the "Man U are Scum" nonsense that is everywhere

Well I beg their pardon for not looking properly. I know a few do, I read every word of "Motorway Miles" etc, but I steer clear of the "dedicated" Club threads.