Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[outragous76]

I read this earlier (on Pete Birks blog):

More interestingly, if the parallels with Madoff are pushed hard, then players such as myself who withdrew money between 2008 and 2011 might be chased to give it back. The argument here is simple. Why should I, who was lucky enough to take non-existent cash out of FTP, be ok, while someone who left their cash in there loses everything? And the defence os "I saw it coming" is even worse, because then you are admitting that you KNEW the money wasn't really there, but took it anyway.

Does anyone think that could happen?

I'd be shocked if they did, I'm not sure how the DOJ could enforce that to players outside of the US.
 

impossible!

the administration would cost more than the return - let alone trying to recover!

Besides - they would owe me money!

[pleno1]

one timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. frenchies gonna get us out?

[Dubai]

As a big net loser on fulltilt i think everyone who has cashed out should give the funds back and everyone be equal as if it never happened

[ManuelsMum]

http://www.pokernewsreport.com/full-tilt-poker-ponzi-scheme-allegations-refuted-by-ferguson-attorney-4826

[redarmi]

In some cases they never had it and there are rumours they spent some of the rest on marketing etc. Fractional Reserve poker, it's great!

So, in effect, Lederer is like Madoff?

No not really, firstly how much Lederer has been aware/cause of this mess is unknown. He is not the CEO (Ray Bitar is) and that is why he is hasn't been arrested by the US authorities. Also this isn't really a Ponzi scheme imo, more total mis management, I think the majority of people involved with Tilt had good intentions just totally incompetent.

Good call Longy! Sigh at Boldie getting there before the DoJ

Could a similar thing apply to those who withdrew their money?

This was talking about payments being reclaimed...

I read this earlier (on Pete Birks blog):

More interestingly, if the parallels with Madoff are pushed hard, then players such as myself who withdrew money between 2008 and 2011 might be chased to give it back. The argument here is simple. Why should I, who was lucky enough to take non-existent cash out of FTP, be ok, while someone who left their cash in there loses everything? And the defence os "I saw it coming" is even worse, because then you are admitting that you KNEW the money wasn't really there, but took it anyway.

Does anyone think that could happen?

There is literally zero chance of this happening.  If it was actually a ponzi scheme then there would be perhaps a 10% chance of it happening but it wasn't so literally no chance.

[doubleup]

In some cases they never had it and there are rumours they spent some of the rest on marketing etc. Fractional Reserve poker, it's great!

So, in effect, Lederer is like Madoff?

No not really, firstly how much Lederer has been aware/cause of this mess is unknown. He is not the CEO (Ray Bitar is) and that is why he is hasn't been arrested by the US authorities. Also this isn't really a Ponzi scheme imo, more total mis management, I think the majority of people involved with Tilt had good intentions just totally incompetent.

Good call Longy! Sigh at Boldie getting there before the DoJ

Could a similar thing apply to those who withdrew their money?

This was talking about payments being reclaimed...

I read this earlier (on Pete Birks blog):

More interestingly, if the parallels with Madoff are pushed hard, then players such as myself who withdrew money between 2008 and 2011 might be chased to give it back. The argument here is simple. Why should I, who was lucky enough to take non-existent cash out of FTP, be ok, while someone who left their cash in there loses everything? And the defence os "I saw it coming" is even worse, because then you are admitting that you KNEW the money wasn't really there, but took it anyway.

Does anyone think that could happen?

There is literally zero chance of this happening.  If it was actually a ponzi scheme then there would be perhaps a 10% chance of it happening but it wasn't so literally no chance.

I was worried they would try to reclaim the pro vi golf balls I got from the ftp shop, so I hid them in deep grass in the North Berwick area at the weekend.

 

[TightEnd]

An unnamed party from within the gambling industry has signed a letter of intent with regards to a potential investment in Full Tilt Poker (FTP).

Jeff Ifrah, a lawyer connected to the operator, told eGaming Review that the letter is valid until 30 September, but that it is not binding in its entirety.

“There are terms within the letter of intent which are binding and terms which are not, and they are able to walk away, but no other investor has invested as significant an amount of resources and time as this group,” he said.

Ifrah also confirmed that the repayment of player funds remains crucial to any deal, while the investor hopes to settle Department of Justice fines and - by extension - render further legal action against the company and its subsidiaries redundant.

He added that, while Tuesday’s press statement from Preet Bharara resulted in a loss of interest from some previously interested suitors, there remain three parties involved in discussions to invest in Full Tilt Poker.

The statement, in which Bharara labelled the operator “A global Ponzi scheme”, followed an amendment to the civil suit against FTP to add board members Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer and Rafe Furst to the list of defendants.

According to Full Tilt Poker’s own press statement at the end of August, at least six parties had visited the company’s offices in Dublin to inspect their operations.

Regulators from the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) have been engaged in private discussions with FTP lawyers in London this week with regards to the status of the company’s operating licence, but are yet to reach a verdict.

Reports in the Wall Street Journal suggest FTP has sought a 30-day extension to the time allotted by the AGCC, and eGaming Review understands from multiple sources that the evidence has been heard, although the AGCC is yet to make a public statement on the matter.

[cambridgealex]

http://www.pokertube.com/free-poker-videos?movie=18156&title=FOX_Interview_with_Tom__Durrrr__Dwan_regarding_the_Full_Tilt_Scam

[pleno1]

viva le france!

[alfiesdad]

Does anybody honestly think an investor would touch this company with a barge pole now?....surely the French talk is a smokescreen.

[AndrewT]

Full tilt French investor revealed.

[TightEnd]

The Full Tilt Poker hearing in London has run in to a fifth day despite only being scheduled for three.

Rumour and hearsay on affiliate sites and elsewhere claim a decision has been made but Gaming Intelligence has learned that the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) tribunal is still deliberating.

It is understood that deliberations and assessment of the hearing were well under way, but that Full Tilt executives were called in for further questioning this morning.

The AGCC tribunal was hoping to make a decision today but it may now run until Monday.

Meanwhile, the rumour mill has run into overdrive with Laurent Tapie, the son of Bernard Tapie, the latest to be linked with an acquistion of Full Tilt. Bernard Tapie was the owner of French soccer club Olympique de Marseille, which won five French titles and the European Cup before being stripped of the latter after match-fixing allegations.

Bernard Tapie is known for his abilities in rescuing bankrupt companies, most famously his acquisition of Adidas in 1989 for the equivalent of less than €250m, which was then sold on for roughly €685m. Tapie has also had his share of troubles, including match-fixing and tax evasion allegations, bankruptcy in 1994 and a six-month stint in prison in 1997.

Son Laurent has a history in online gaming going back to 2000, including a brief stint at the helm of Partouche Interactive.

[Marky147]

http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2011/09/tom-durrrr-dwan-speaks-to-pokernews-7220.htm

Interview with Dwan

[TightEnd]

According to Subject:Poker, the Department of Justice has issued warrants to seize the bank accounts of Ray Bitar, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson and Rafe Furst. The accounts are as follows:

• All funds and other property on deposit in account numbered GB81 RBOS 6095 4234087766 held at NatWest, in the name of Raymond Bitar, and all funds traceable thereto;
• All funds and other property on deposit in account numbered 7655741861 held at Wells Fargo Bank N.A. in the name of HH Lederer Consulting LLC, and all funds traceable thereto;
• All funds and other property on deposit in account numbered GB56LOYD30166314010402 held at Lloyds TSB International, Isle of Mann, in the name of Howard Lederer, and all funds traceable thereto;
• All funds and other property on deposit in account numbered 40039049628 held at Citibank N.A., in the name of Chris Ferguson, and all funds traceable thereto;
• Account numbered CH87 0875 5057068400100 held at Pictet & Co Bankers, Switzerland, in the name of Telamonian Ajax Trust, and all funds traceable thereto.

[TightEnd]

FTP/Red Pro deals and Poker agents

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/Discussing-Red-Pro-Deals-with-Poker-Agent-Nick-Ferro_51950/