Live feeds and hole cards: Ethics and considerations

[Boba Fett]

Bobs, would you be happy if the delayed stream was shown on the screens in the club? Would you be happy if the delay was 15 minutes? 5?

The whole crux is the hole cards. Stream what you like without them. The argument that Alex's Mum prefers it that way and should therefore be embraced and accepted  is ridiculous.

Well I think it has to be at least 30 minutes but with a reasonable delay it wouldnt bother me.

[MANTIS01]

People gain information all the time during comps that could see their equity in a comp rise. What about if Gareth rings you in the break and tells you who's on his table. You say "I know him, he has x tell". Boom - his equity gies up.

Perhaps I'm destined not to understand this Alex. When I sit down to play poker it's my job to fight you hard and not give you anything right? If you ring someone at the break who knows me then sure your equity will rise a little. But I can't do one thing about that and anyway it's just history from previous games. What I can do something about is the glut of currrent and relevant info being broadcast from the current game to said friend by simply not putting my cards over the window. People are saying that they will obv put their cards over the window and leak equity but I don't know why. So some railers can play next time?? I would like 1st prize instead pls.

[MANTIS01]

People gain information all the time during comps that could see their equity in a comp rise. What about if Gareth rings you in the break and tells you who's on his table. You say "I know him, he has x tell". Boom - his equity gies up.

This.

Mantis it doesnt matter what long winded story you come up with, its nothing that couldnt also be taken advantage of by other players at the table.  For all we know everyone at the final could have a behavioral expert at home calling them with anything they pick up.

What is the difference between your example and the following scenario.  Same final table but no live stream.  Gareth has been opening pots at the final at Matt Perrins has been shoving on Gareth forcing folds.  The updates have mentioned 2 or 3 hands like this.  On the break, Gareth phones his behavioral expert, who is also a good overall player and has experience playing with Perrins (using him as a random example).  The friend advises changing his opening range in certain positions to "x" and, given his experience of playing against Perrins, thinks his shove range will be "y" so Gareths calling range should be "z".  Gareth now has an opening range and a calling range that will increase his chances at the final that he didnt work out himself but given to him by some guy lounging on his sofa in Birmingham.

What is the difference?  Is this also wrong?  Does this mean there should be a ban on online updates that even describe the action or a ban on players speaking to anyone on breaks?

The point is, players can gain advantages through a variety of situations.  Online streaming may add to the possible situations, but like every other situation it is an equal playing field in that everyone has access to the same information and an advantage is gained by the person who figures out how to use that information best.

As above, as a player you can't control anything in the eg you offer.

How does Stelios have equal access when he doesn't have internet access nor do his friends who are all old and confused.

Feckin love your last line bud. Whoever has the best external methods of exploiting this info will end up with the best advantage. Exactly.

Sorry about being long winded Boba.

[Jon MW]

People gain information all the time during comps that could see their equity in a comp rise. What about if Gareth rings you in the break and tells you who's on his table. You say "I know him, he has x tell". Boom - his equity gies up.

This.

Mantis it doesnt matter what long winded story you come up with, its nothing that couldnt also be taken advantage of by other players at the table.  For all we know everyone at the final could have a behavioral expert at home calling them with anything they pick up.

What is the difference between your example and the following scenario.  Same final table but no live stream.  Gareth has been opening pots at the final at Matt Perrins has been shoving on Gareth forcing folds.  The updates have mentioned 2 or 3 hands like this.  On the break, Gareth phones his behavioral expert, who is also a good overall player and has experience playing with Perrins (using him as a random example).  The friend advises changing his opening range in certain positions to "x" and, given his experience of playing against Perrins, thinks his shove range will be "y" so Gareths calling range should be "z".  Gareth now has an opening range and a calling range that will increase his chances at the final that he didnt work out himself but given to him by some guy lounging on his sofa in Birmingham.

What is the difference?  Is this also wrong?  Does this mean there should be a ban on online updates that even describe the action or a ban on players speaking to anyone on breaks?

The point is, players can gain advantages through a variety of situations.  Online streaming may add to the possible situations, but like every other situation it is an equal playing field in that everyone has access to the same information and an advantage is gained by the person who figures out how to use that information best.

As above, as a player you can't control anything in the eg you offer.

How does Stelios have equal access when he doesn't have internet access nor do his friends who are all old and confused.

Feckin love your last line bud. Whoever has the best external methods of exploiting this info will end up with the best advantage. Exactly.

Sorry about being long winded Boba.

Less long winded version - it's not an equal playing field

[cambridgealex]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

[boldie]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

That depends, did you use your new iPad to post that?

[Laxie]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

That depends, did you use your new iPad to post that?

He's replied to you...in another thread as it happens.  Quite impressed with his ability to get sidetracked yet stay focused simultaneously.  lol

[SuuPRlim]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

That depends, did you use your new iPad to post that?

hope every time you look at the iPad you think not about it's shiny white casing or incredible features, but of the skulduggery and deception you used to acquire it and may it leave the burning scars of dishonesty wherever you take it.

[boldie]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

That depends, did you use your new iPad to post that?

hope every time you look at the iPad you think not about it's shiny white casing or incredible features, but of the skulduggery and deception you used to acquire it and may it leave the burning scars of dishonesty wherever you take it.

[Laxie]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

That depends, did you use your new iPad to post that?

hope every time you look at the iPad you think not about it's shiny white casing or incredible features, but of the skulduggery and deception you used to acquire it and may it leave the burning scars of dishonesty wherever you take it.

OMG!!!  +1  WP Sir   

[smashedagain]

Getting silly now....draw the line under this one perhaps?

That depends, did you use your new iPad to post that?

hope every time you look at the iPad you think not about it's shiny white casing or incredible features, but of the skulduggery and deception you used to acquire it and may it leave the burning scars of dishonesty wherever you take it.

OMG!!!  +1  WP Sir   

[smashedagain]

I so wan to join in this but I think Alex has taken enough now.

Word of advice mate. If you want people to stop doing something then the last thing you do is ask em to draw a line under it. Lol

[cambridgealex]

I so wan to join in this but I think Alex has taken enough now.

Word of advice mate. If you want people to stop doing something then the last thing you do is ask em to draw a line under it. Lol

Lol just realised where all this came from. I meant draw the line under this debate itt, as all these scenarios with Gareth, Stelios, my mother etc...it was getting silly imo.

[h]

I so wan to join in this but I think Alex has taken enough now.

Word of advice mate. If you want people to stop doing something then the last thing you do is ask em to draw a line under it. Lol

Lol just realised where all this came from. I meant draw the line under this debate itt, as all these scenarios with Gareth, Stelios, my mother etc...it was getting silly imo.

i am finshed with it i think

Ethics:
I dont think there is any issue good players will use any thing that may give them an advantage no matter how big or small whether that is huds for on line play or pha on forums or video training sites ,mentoring , coaching discussing hands with friends so if willing to put effort in gl to them
Considerations:
I think any info from delayed live feed (without showing hole cards) is negated some what by time delay
Showing of hole cards does make the feed more interesting for most viewers but potentially creates more possibility to exploit
players tenancies ( so a negative for players unless you change and adapt )

Personally i think if there is an option to not comply with showing  hole cards this i would chose if mandatory to show then i will still play any way

Finally thank you to Mantis  as comments have been interesting

[smashedagain]

  move along now folks. lets find someone else to take the piss out of