Good Play or Good Luck?

[snoopy1239]

Last one I promise. It's been a day of interesting, but expensive hands. Thank God there was one I won.


***** Hand History for Game 3321331785 *****

$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, January 05, 21:26:44 EDT 2006
Table Table  81210 (Real Money)

Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10

Seat 5: snoopy1239 ( $217.15 )
Seat 6: SkeletonA_A ( $219.94 )
Seat 8: lifes3ps ( $142.50 )
Seat 9: Freediddy487 ( $169.15 )
Seat 10: schickli ( $200 )
Seat 7: dl8822 ( $246.70 )
Seat 2: dumpster69 ( $197.95 )
Seat 4: egos_bitch ( $284.20 )
Seat 3: jfarncough56 ( $199.80 )
Seat 1: mscmam ( $200 )

dl8822 posts small blind [$1].
lifes3ps posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  ]

schickli folds.
dumpster69 folds.
jfarncough56 folds.
egos_bitch folds.
snoopy1239 calls [$2].
SkeletonA_A calls [$2].
dl8822 raises [$14].
lifes3ps folds.
snoopy1239 calls [$13].
SkeletonA_A folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]

dl8822 bets [$20].
snoopy1239 calls [$20].

** Dealing Turn ** [ ]

dl8822 bets [$50].
snoopy1239 calls [$50].

** Dealing River ** [ ]

dl8822 is all-In.
snoopy1239 is all-In.

dl8822 shows [ , ] a pair of kings.
snoopy1239 shows [ , ] three of a kind, fours.

dl8822 wins $29.55 from  side pot #1  with a pair of kings.
snoopy1239 wins $435.30 from  the main pot  with three of a kind, fours.

[ifm]

AAAAYYYYYAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!!
Good luck of course but from the looks of the others well deserved.

[Wardonkey]

Scary way to play your set, but you got the max. I would probably have raised on the flop, what do you do if a club falls?

[snoopy1239]

I had him down for an overpair, due to the size of his preflop raise, with a big club. I really couldn't see him laying it down if I played my set aggressively, so I thought I might as well slow down and see if a club arrives.

I would have folded if the club had arrived, unless of course I was being given pot odds for the full house.

[Wardonkey]

Fair nuff. wp

[yt]

I just searched my hard drive and found a similar hand i played ages ago. It's nice to see my game has come on a bit since then. I won but shouldn't have. What was I doing calling preflop for half my stack? oh well!

PokerStars Game #714133957:  Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2004/09/23 -
15:49:24 (ET)
Table 'Raimonda' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Booooom!!!!! ($400 in chips)
Seat 2: Quince ($370 in chips)
Seat 4: bd10 ($379.60 in chips)
Seat 5: Str8Out ($396 in chips)
Seat 6: srats ($411.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Viffer ($605.95 in chips)
Seat 8: elise66 ($151.80 in chips)
Seat 9: yt_sbw ($130.35 in chips)
yt_sbw: posts small blind $2
Booooom!!!!!: posts big blind $4
STRIKE: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yt_sbw [ ]
Quince: raises $12 to $16
bd10: folds
Str8Out: folds
srats: calls $16
Viffer: folds
elise66: calls $16
yt_sbw: calls $14
Booooom!!!!!: raises $56 to $72
Quince: calls $56
srats: folds
elise66: folds
yt_sbw: calls $56
*** FLOP *** [ ]
yt_sbw: checks
Booooom!!!!!: bets $240
Quince: raises $58 to $298 and is all-in
yt_sbw: calls $58.35 and is all-in
Booooom!!!!!: calls $58
*** TURN *** [ ] [As]
*** RIVER *** [ As] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Booooom!!!!!: shows [ ] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
Quince: shows [ ] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
Booooom!!!!! collected $239.65 from side pot
Quince collected $239.65 from side pot
yt_sbw: shows [ ] (a full house, Fours full of Jacks)
yt_sbw collected $420.05 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $902.35 Main pot $420.05. Side pot $479.30. | Rake $3
Board [ As ]
Seat 1: Booooom!!!!! (big blind) showed [ ] and won ($239.65) with
two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 2: Quince showed [ ] and won ($239.65) with two pair, Kings
and Jacks
Seat 4: bd10 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Str8Out folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: srats folded before Flop
Seat 7: Viffer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: elise66 (button) folded before Flop
Seat 9: yt_sbw (small blind) showed [ ] and won ($420.05) with a
full house, Fours full of Jacks

[TightEnd]

Snoops, how can you not raise on that straightening, flushing flop?

you are just asking to get outdrawn, his overpair if that's your read could easily have a club

[Nem]

you are just asking to get outdrawn, his overpair if that's your read could easily have a club

Good advice

[snoopy1239]

Snoops, how can you not raise on that straightening, flushing flop?

you are just asking to get outdrawn, his overpair if that's your read could easily have a club

If he has an overpair with a club, then he's not going to fold if I raise.

[TightEnd]

buy you can get away easier if a club drops

[snoopy1239]

buy you can get away easier if a club drops

My theory is this:

If I know he has a hand that he won't fold to if I reraise, then I might as well wait to see if the club falls and then fold if it does.

I could be wrong.

If I was unsure to his holding, then I'd reraise the flop. But, and considering the size of his preflop bet, I was sure he had aces or kings with a flush draw.

I guess it's a bit like flopping a straight in Omaha on a 2 suited flop. You're winning, but have a vulnerable hand. The flush draws aren't going to fold, so you might as well check or check-call and see what the turn brings.

It's the same when people move all-in with a flush draw. They know that their opponent has the trips, they know they won't fold, so why move all-in?

[Royal Flush]

I agree with snoops, the biggest error i see is people pushing to 'protect' hands when there is no chance the person is folding, so all we end up doing is forcing out the kind of hands that cant beat us!!!

[Longy]

Hmm im not sure about this i think you are lucky to get it all from him here. He should have slowed down on the turn when the ace dropped and you are going to struggle to extract the max from the hand not getting a good proportion of it on the flop. I think a mistake made by many is not being aggresive enough against what in affect a drawing hand on the flop and turn. Then realising that there is still money left on the river that they can't extract on the river as the draw has missed.

You are arguing that you would fold if the club fell. Well if it falls on the turn you may well get odds to re-outdraw to fill up on the river. If the club rivers you have so much of your stack in, can you really pass as there is a chance he is bluffing the flush.

Well played cos you get his stack which is the aim at the end of the day, but i think you extract less than the max from a strong cash player here.

[NoflopsHomer]

I'm with Snoopy here too, pots sometimes get too big that players will not be folding the cards.

[way_too_tight]

If I know he has a hand that he won't fold to if I reraise, then I might as well wait to see if the club falls and then fold if it does.

If you know he won't fold and that you have him beat then you should push it all in. If you deny him the correct odds to call and he does anyway then  you profit.

There are a bunch of cards that can fall here that may/should slow him down (any ace, any club), if that happens then you may lose a bunch of money that should have been yours.

Worse still if he hits a card that actually gives him a winner then you have let him draw for free when you feel he would have called to draw (incorrectly, given that he doesn't know he's beaten yet).

Just my thoughts, YMMV.

Bryan