Defining the terms of a bet

[Eso Kral]

rob emailed me today to say bet is off and that he'd explain when he sees me

:S

Does that mean that if i dont get the thread to reach 2k for Movember our bet can be called off? or do i still have to wear the outfit that makes me look like Celtic in the December deepstack?

[gatso]

rob emailed me today to say bet is off and that he'd explain when he sees me

:S

that's the line girgy should've used

[smashedagain]

rob emailed me today to say bet is off and that he'd explain when he sees me

:S

whats he coming to thailand for... he gets his pick of skirt in this country

[DMorgan]

I'm not going to insult Robs intelligence by acknowledging that he thought for a moment when the bet was made that re-entries would count. The terms were very clear at the time.

Quoting from Alex's Diary:

Hi Dan,

The £1K heads up will run at the next Monte Carlo in December, I will prob GTE it at £64K with max runner 64 (confidence eh) and am designing the format with Simon, details will be released soon:)

The £5K prop bets that we cannot get 64 runners are with:

Kieth - £1k
Cos £1k
You and Luke £3k

Is this right? Thats what I have in my phone, can you confirm the £3k? I thought James Keys had some of your action when you boys were spouting off how the World HU at Vic only got 18 runners with direct buy-ins and sats - so you lot said 64 was impossible for Dusk Till Dawn.

Rob

P.S. What else can I do with you young guns except keep crushing you boys time and time again HU

I see no reason for the bet not to stand, but am yet to hear Robs reason. Can you forward me the reply Cos if Rob is willing to discuss it via email?

Cheers

[BAM]

I'm not entering Greeky as I cant afford to re-enter

[easypickings]

Wow, I think it's REALLY lame if he tries to get out of this without paying.

It sounds like a very clear bet; any bet or prop in poker is done on trust, and this one is obviously alot more official and well-organised than many others where people pay out without hesitation.

[SuuPRlim]

im going to be all 64 of the runners, I'll win, do £10k on rake and have 6 shiny new flags for the hendon mob  and would be great for morale.

#everybodywins (except Keith, Dan, Luke, Keys, Cos)

[GreekStein]

I've emailed Rob, explained I'm travelling and thus unlikely to see him for a while and to explain why he considers the bet off. At the moment I don't consider it off but will wait for Rob's response.

I'm sure Rob must have a good reason as 5k is peanuts to him and I know he wouldn't ever welch on a bet (look at everyone he gives 2/1 playing hu). I feel bad questioning Rob, particularly after a nice night out he took us on and paid for in Vegas but feel I'm not doing anything wrong.

[easypickings]

Is there any explanation from Rob yet Cos?

One of the things that the poker world does very well is the way that there is a shared trust and understanding that when a bet is made, it is made.

It takes very little for a bet to be made, and I'm sure we could all give examples of this bets made quickly and by just use of words. Basically, the word "booked" from both sides is enough to seal it.

There is far more than that here, to make the bet a lock; details into a phone, and an email from Rob, that he wouldn't send if there was any doubt as to whether the bet was on or not.

The bet was never that IF the tournament went ahead, it would get 64 runners. The bet was that the tournament would go ahead AND it would get 64 runners. Therefore, the possible circumstance of the tournament not going ahead should have nothing to do with whether the bet is on or not.

[GreekStein]

Is there any explanation from Rob yet Cos?

One of the things that the poker world does very well is the way that there is a shared trust and understanding that when a bet is made, it is made.

It takes very little for a bet to be made, and I'm sure we could all give examples of this bets made quickly and by just use of words. Basically, the word "booked" from both sides is enough to seal it.

There is far more than that here, to make the bet a lock; details into a phone, and an email from Rob, that he wouldn't send if there was any doubt as to whether the bet was on or not.

The bet was never that IF the tournament went ahead, it would get 64 runners. The bet was that the tournament would go ahead AND it would get 64 runners. Therefore, the possible circumstance of the tournament not going ahead should have nothing to do with whether the bet is on or not.

As far as I'm concerned, the bet should be on.

There are a few circumstances which are slightly confusing, i.e Rob asking a mutual friend to clarify with us (only recently I should add and months after the bet was booked) if the bet was on and to put up our money. Nothing was asked of me, Dan or Luke in terms of this and it should be on as this responsibilty lies with Rob, not the person he asked or us.

It was my intention to not mention anything about the bet until as near to the time as possible or even on Jan 1st as relative 1k to me is more than 5k to Rob and I thought a small wager for him might not be taken seriously or even forgotten about and I wouldn't want to prompt someone I've bet against to beat me.

The're was a long chain of emails back and forth but this is one of Rob's emails that's most relevant by way of his explanation:


Cos, the bet is off. I don't want to get into a debate about this.

It was a 5k bet, I scheduled the heads up into the monte carlo is december at 64 runners and a 64k gte, therefore it was mathematically impossible for you guys to win any money, as I would gte the remaing seats in satelittes, which your 5k would do towards any overlays, therfore it was impossible for you guys to make 1p out of this bet.

Before the monte carlo literature was published I asked ******* to contact you all on 3 seperate occasions and in the end I have him a deadline before we published the monte carlo brochure - only keith put his money up, none of you put your money up or even got back to me.

That's pretty much it, with respect, 5k is a very small wager for me, and spread accross 6 people, even smallers for the people betting against me.

Its probabaly costing me more taking the time to explain this to you and I don't mean to be arrogant, but none of you except keith got back to me.


In the above email I deleted out the person's name as they've said to both Rob and myself weeks ago that they didn't want to get involved in this due to the awkward position it puts them in.

Point 1 is wrong imo as I think more than 5k added would be necessary to fill a 1k HU tournament, particularly when the only time it could feasibly run is alongside the monte carlo, which itself carries a big guarantee and relies on lots of satellite winners. My perception of people's desire to play heads up live tournament obviously differs hugely to Rob's and I think that there are not many who would pony up 1k+.

The second point is none of our fault but Robs - I was never contacted to pony up any money.

The third point is completely irrelevant and a bit of an insult. The money is irrelevant here really. A bet is a bet.

The last point I won't even get started on but I feel a bit insulted by.

I've accepted the bet is off, not because I think it should be, but because I can't be bothered to argue about this and its near enough impossible for me to sort out from Thailand. Rob has been very good to me every time I've been in DTD, buying me drinks etc. He also spent a few grand on that night out he took us on in Vegas so I think Rob doesn't see he's doing anything wrong by calling the bet off here, even though in my opinion he very much is.

It's upsetting but a lesson learned.

[GreekStein]

Should also just add that the part of not being able to make anything from the bet at a 64k Gtee is also untrue. Obv I'm out of the country which I wasn't expecting at the time of making the bet but if there was an overlay, myself, Dan, Luke and Keith could enter and a 1k entry would be worth more..

[Woodsey]

Should also just add that the part of not being able to make anything from the bet at a 64k Gtee is also untrue. Obv I'm out of the country which I wasn't expecting at the time of making the bet but if there was an overlay, myself, Dan, Luke and Keith could enter and a 1k entry would be worth more..

Rob would just have put on a couple of 10 seat guaranteed sats the week before to make up the shortfall probably, just to make sure he didn't lose.

[DMorgan]

Should also just add that the part of not being able to make anything from the bet at a 64k Gtee is also untrue. Obv I'm out of the country which I wasn't expecting at the time of making the bet but if there was an overlay, myself, Dan, Luke and Keith could enter and a 1k entry would be worth more..

Rob would just have put on a couple of 10 seat guaranteed sats the week before to make up the shortfall probably, just to make sure he didn't lose.

Which means that Rob does a good £15k in overlay when he could just pay out on this bet and be done with it. Paying up is CLEARLY the most +EV pay for Rob, but he just won't do it because his ego doesn't permit him to admit that he made a terrible bet and has lost.

Instead he's decided to reel off some BS reasons as to why the bet should be off and threatened bans from the club for all involved if we persist.

[Woodsey]

Should also just add that the part of not being able to make anything from the bet at a 64k Gtee is also untrue. Obv I'm out of the country which I wasn't expecting at the time of making the bet but if there was an overlay, myself, Dan, Luke and Keith could enter and a 1k entry would be worth more..

Rob would just have put on a couple of 10 seat guaranteed sats the week before to make up the shortfall probably, just to make sure he didn't lose.

Which means that Rob does a good £15k in overlay when he could just pay out on this bet and be done with it. Paying up is CLEARLY the most +EV pay for Rob, but he just won't do it because his ego doesn't permit him to admit that he made a terrible bet and has lost.

Instead he's decided to reel off some BS reasons as to why the bet should be off and threatened bans from the club for all involved if we persist.

Yeah well, just to make clear I'm not saying whether he should pay or not as that's got now't do do with me. Just making the point that he wouldn't actually lose the bet if you pressured him into following through with it.

[Skippy]

Instead he's decided to reel off some BS reasons as to why the bet should be off and threatened bans from the club for all involved if we persist.

Has that actually happened? That's a pretty low blow if it's true.