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Author Topic: Grand Prix - Live Reads FTW?!  (Read 4779 times)
jgcblack
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« on: January 15, 2012, 09:07:18 PM »

We are in the Grand Prix, day 1a at dtd on a juicy table with no competant players..  We have even gotten prop bets going with 3 of the table (in a tournament yes) and have been 'getting the table going', while playing very few hands and winning them all, up to around 18k.

Background - we have seen villan 1 in this hand play AQ oop as follows: donk AQx call raise, donk x call raise, check x.
Also played AK oop cautious on Axx, however didn't seem to be able to click the fold button when the other in the hand.  He seems bad but relatively 'solid' with startings hands and obv never folding top pair. 

I am certain he is the kind to call it off bad but rarely raise bluff.. obv a common 'type' in these and other <£1k comps.


So, our hand..

We have  two hearts in the SB and there is a raise from MP2, called by villain 1 in hijack and villain 2 on btn.

Flop
Two Clubs

We check, OR checks, Villain 1 bets 200, Villain 2 raises to 900, we call.  Then Villain 1 makes it 2200.... Hmmm - he got an A = wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii! (with the intention of check shoving ANY non club turn - wana rep a draw innit, n these boys won't fold any A if they have one).

(hmmm thats a good flop Cheesy)

Turn


We check with the hate of 'how can we get all our moneys in now' he probably aint going to stack off without a big club but lets check to see if we can get him to bet his Ax/ clubs/ any A with any club..

He bets 1200 (yes 1200 into like 5.5k), we believe this to be him trying to 'get us to open our flush hands by raising' while he still gets value from worse Ax's or maybe even induce a raise from us if he has a flush. We call.  He's defo level 1 thinking!

River


We decide that the only value we're getting here is from Ax or clubs and that we've played this hand exactly like a weak A.. so a check, small raise here will give him the opportunity to get to showdown cheap-ish without looking too silly if we have better.  And we win a 13k pot with like 9k behind and continue our good start.

We check and he bets 1600.. we make it 5850 and he says 'Oh is that a raise....... I'm all in'.

We snap before even thinking... 38k or so in the middle...



I think that because he bet raises the flop he should never have  / / / / which are the only hands that actually beat us.

However from the previous hands we've seen him play AK/ AQ.. he obviously isn't raising here with them.  Which only leaves him with    Two Clubs and the rest of the 'nut flushes' or  Two Clubs type 'value' hands (in this spot I personally think he is NEVER bluffing), Obv we beat all of those..

There are a couple of other houses he can have..  two spades/ two hearts/ Two Diamonds / / / / ... and we beat all those..

BUT IS HE EVER RAISING THEM ON THE FLOP??? however he did raise pretty small on the flop really. 900 to 2200 vs two opponents??


I realise I'm asking whether we are going to ever consider folding a full house on this river in a £60 comp with lots of ability to re-entry and so on.. but what I guess im asking is that even though there are only 6 hands in the entire world that could beat us if he is allowed to pick any hand he wants, does he EVER raise here without them?





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pleno1
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 09:09:50 PM »

he cant have k2/q2 DUCY?

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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
George2Loose
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 09:11:03 PM »

Why don't u just shove the flop if Ur sure he has an ace and will never fold?
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Ole Ole Ole Ole!
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 11:59:08 PM »

Gotta do this before I can actually read it...

25/50 playing 18k

MP raises to 150, Villain 1 calls from HJ, Villain 2 calls on the button, Hero calls in SB with  two hearts

Pot 650
Flop  Two Clubs

Hero checks,  MP checks, villain 1 bets 200, villain 2 raises to 900, Hero calls, Villain 1 3bets to 2200, what Villain 2 does it a mystery but assumed a fold, Hero calls

Pot 5.5k
Turn 

Hero checks, Villain bets 1200, Hero calls

Pot 7.9k
River 

Hero checks, Villain bets 1600, Hero raises to 5850, Villain all in for a mystery amount but Hero has 8600 behind, Hero calls



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jgcblack
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 12:38:39 AM »

Yer thanks Dan.. Still getting used to how to put it all clearly.

Yes villain 2 folds otf.  And yes he can have K2cc or Q2cc Patrick, but I'm trying to convince myself he would shove with them otr.. but I'm just not sure.. and if he does then why would he reraise the flop with some parsley in his hand?  Doesn't seem to add up.. no?

The reason I'm posting the hand is that when I discussed it with a friend who I think is a very good 6max cash player his words when I said the river action and the saying "oh is that a raise, I'm all in" is that he said "well, you're beat.. clearly".

And obv we are trying to play this skill game and use our 'edge' in every spot, even when its vs Mr nit Mcnitterson and he 6bts us pre and we have KK's... we fold because we know Mr nit Mcnitterson only has AA when he does this.  Vs G2L, Stato, Lex Gouldhuis, DM, Lil' Dave or other such players we would obv take our KK and fistpump put our chips in.


If in this spot, "we're beat, clearly..." then we obv can't put our chips in... but before I give the hand conclusion its just a thought point, with live reads FTW and all that, can we really expect to be ahead here?


Anyone have a hand that fits his line..?

Call raise pre - bet/ raise flop small vs 2 players on  Two Clubs - bet 1/5 pot on  - bet 1/5 pot then snap shove for 25k (covers us) on  ...

jb
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Dubai
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 12:54:58 AM »

In before multiple deuce of clubs
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jgcblack
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 01:00:29 AM »

yer yer Dubai, well done.. gold star! now can I have the opinion of a trophy winning dad to be please?

Congrats on both the trophy and the newborn btw.
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mulhuzz
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 02:08:53 AM »

i mean, we have a full house and it's a pretty good one and we can reenter, so let's just call?
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Killerkilsby
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 09:50:55 AM »

Would he play deuces this way?
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 01:47:59 PM »

My head hurts.

The speech certainly makes it look like you're beaten, "oh is that a raise, I'm all in" usually a solid indicator of strength.

Why have we identified this guy as level 1 + can't fold top pair, coolered him pretty hard OTF and decided to take a ridiculously fancy "trappy" line, followed by a 4 paragraph strategy post?

We have a boat, he has trips, he won't fold for all the tea in china and we've decided to try and "trap" him... way way too fancy just hit the raise button somewhere lol

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Spraggs
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 02:39:05 PM »

You've just got to jam the flop (or raise/get it in depending on stacks) you said it before, he's straight forward thinking, he won't fold an ace, you're out of position on later streets, there is a flush draw out there, there are bad turn cards that could kill your action (any club).

Thats ~68 reasons why you should get it in OTF, i could probably think of more.

In this comp, against a weak player, as played, i'm not folding the 3rd nuts on the river.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:17:40 PM by Spraggs » Logged

jgcblack
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 06:40:58 PM »

Ok,

I get the idea of getting more in otf.. but its got to be difficult to get even the most basic level 1 thinker to put 15k in on AA2 with A5-AJ..?

Its 50/100 and 350 pre.. so theres 4x350 +1xbb 100 = 1600

He bets 200, raised to 900, we flat, he makes it 2200 and we flat = 2x2200 + 900 = 6900 otf.


IF we dont flat the 2200 and instead now 'backraise' to like 5.2k- 6.8k then obv its an easy turn shove if he flats.. but I just dont want to see him go away with a weak-ish ace.. and we dont care if he 'hits' his kicker cos we're not folding anyways.

It just seems a lot easier for us to get it in ott or otr when we flat the flop, because he'll level himself saying "john wouldve raised a big Ace on the flop"..


Does anyone know what I mean? It seems a lot of you just want to get it in otf..Huh?

Do we play the hand the same in Grand Prix (£50), DTD 500, GUKPT £1k, EPTs???
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b4matt
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 07:07:14 PM »

Ok,

I get the idea of getting more in otf.. but its got to be difficult to get even the most basic level 1 thinker to put 15k in on AA2 with A5-AJ..?


Errrrr really?

Level 1 thinkers do not worry about what the oppo has. He see's 3 cards all looking the same and wants to get all his chips across the line asap.
Level 2 would also call a shove as he would decide you have a flush draw.
Level 3... dunno, i'm level 1
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 08:26:58 PM by b4matt » Logged
SuuPRlim
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 08:24:19 PM »

We are in the Grand Prix, day 1a at dtd on a juicy table with no competant players..


however didn't seem to be able to click the fold button when the other in the hand.  He seems bad but relatively 'solid' with startings hands and obv never folding top pair. 

I am certain he is the kind to call it off bad but rarely raise bluff.. obv a common 'type' in these and other <£1k comps.


So, our hand..

We have  two hearts.....

Flop
Two Clubs

Then Villain 1 makes it 2200.... Hmmm - he got an A = wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

I get the idea of getting more in otf.. but its got to be difficult to get even the most basic level 1 thinker to put 15k in on AA2 with A5-AJ..?

but I just dont want to see him go away with a weak-ish ace.. and we dont care if he 'hits' his kicker cos we're not folding anyways.

Everything you've said is correct r.e easier to get stacks in on the turn + how he should be proceeding cuatiously with his smaller aces but you've identified him as someone who won't be folding and you have the nuts...

poker can be a pretty simple game sometimes
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sm00035
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 08:30:14 PM »

we can reenter, so let's just call?
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