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Author Topic: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn?  (Read 4570 times)
Eso Kral
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« on: January 16, 2012, 01:12:19 PM »

Grand Prix Day 1b £50

Villain   youngish guy in a hoodie over his head with decent headphones on and covers us with 40k at the start of the hand and has iso'd ip against the weaker players on the table without showdown.

We have 26k and have moved to the table about 1 hour ago and have lost AK v 99 aipf for 10k having 4b setting the short stack in and also lost  on a    all in on the  turn in an Iso raised pot, so Villain should have no reason to feel I am light here.

Blinds 200/400/25

I open utg to 975 with  and get flatted by villain otb with both blinds folding
(2750)
Flop    two hearts    and we lead for 1450 again villain flats
(5650)

Turn     I barrel 3200 and the villain flats again (should I give up now? bet sizeing ok?)
(12500)

River 

I decide to fire the 3rd bullet and bet 7600 which the villain insta calls.

Is this just a massive spew that i need to eradicate from my game and should I just c/f the turn?
Now that we are on the river wwyd?
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Andrew Charles Blacklock - Lived for those he loved and those he loved remember.
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »

I have a few tournament rules.

1) People seriously need to stop wearing those massive headphones, I mean wtf yes yes well done you "like your music" and you can afford sick headphones which drown all the surrounding noise out but you have to take them off every 3 minutes to hear what people are saying. Clowns.

2) People hate folding, since the "serve and volley" has grown in popularity and become a well known trick (S&V = raising pre the bombing your stack off as your range gets thiner and thiner) a lot of players, escpially those from an internet tournament background or recreational players like to get the sherriff's hat on and keep us all honest all the time, this had led to 3berrel ranges becoming joke un-balanced if you're assumed anyway aggressive because people never fold, despite how many time you show them it

3) because people refuse to fold pairs, I only like to play big cards from early position, so I can make bigger pairs than curious colin in seat 8 who isn't going to fold his Q9 on A39J8.

In this specific hand the turn card thins your percieved range a ton, AQ/QQ/KK/AA/JJ/66 are now you're "LEGIT" value hands, although you could be going for thin value with some J*'s quite feesibly but because you're over 30 your young villain prolly doesn't think you can (little does he know you're a total sicko Cheesy) so this coupled with the fact he's prolly "made a plan" once he calls the turn I think he's bluff-catching the river almost always so I would give up OTR for sure. I don;t hate betting the turn at all cos you have equity (4's and 6's) and you could feesibly get him off his 55/77/88 hands but firing the river is going to work very infrequently cos the board texture is identical OTR.

Chk the river back, hope he has 45 and was planning a reverse double float c/r and when he shows you 88 say nice turn call, here's £40 go buy some headphones that don't make you look like a bad wedding D-J.
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Dubai
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 02:05:29 PM »

Hahahaha the old serve and volley
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 02:11:36 PM »

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Dubai
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 02:13:14 PM »

Sam Mac must be Karlovic, you're Jo Durie
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strak33
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 02:51:13 PM »

I have a few tournament rules.

1) People seriously need to stop wearing those massive headphones, I mean wtf yes yes well done you "like your music" and you can afford sick headphones which drown all the surrounding noise out but you have to take them off every 3 minutes to hear what people are saying. Clowns.

2) People hate folding, since the "serve and volley" has grown in popularity and become a well known trick (S&V = raising pre the bombing your stack off as your range gets thiner and thiner) a lot of players, escpially those from an internet tournament background or recreational players like to get the sherriff's hat on and keep us all honest all the time, this had led to 3berrel ranges becoming joke un-balanced if you're assumed anyway aggressive because people never fold, despite how many time you show them it

3) because people refuse to fold pairs, I only like to play big cards from early position, so I can make bigger pairs than curious colin in seat 8 who isn't going to fold his Q9 on A39J8.

In this specific hand the turn card thins your percieved range a ton, AQ/QQ/KK/AA/JJ/66 are now you're "LEGIT" value hands, although you could be going for thin value with some J*'s quite feesibly but because you're over 30 your young villain prolly doesn't think you can (little does he know you're a total sicko Cheesy) so this coupled with the fact he's prolly "made a plan" once he calls the turn I think he's bluff-catching the river almost always so I would give up OTR for sure. I don;t hate betting the turn at all cos you have equity (4's and 6's) and you could feesibly get him off his 55/77/88 hands but firing the river is going to work very infrequently cos the board texture is identical OTR.

Chk the river back, hope he has 45 and was planning a reverse double float c/r and when he shows you 88 say nice turn call, here's £40 go buy some headphones that don't make you look like a bad wedding D-J.

This whole post is great.
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Spraggs
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 03:27:42 PM »

If i'm going for the 3rd bullet, i'm probably wagering all of my chips.

c-bet and turn barrel are fine, will usually fold out all mid pairs that haven't setted up, floats and some Jacks dependant on opponent.

Really think i am jamming river depending on how quickly he was making the calls. It's all in or chk/fold.

He shows up AJ KJ here soooo often, and a jam will put him in a horrible spot with these.
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DMorgan
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 03:51:54 PM »

If i'm going for the 3rd bullet, i'm probably wagering all of my chips.

c-bet and turn barrel are fine, will usually fold out all mid pairs that haven't setted up, floats and some Jacks dependant on opponent.

Really think i am jamming river depending on how quickly he was making the calls. It's all in or chk/fold.

He shows up AJ KJ here soooo often, and a jam will put him in a horrible spot with these.

Live £50 freezeout with a million more days to re-enter, no way he folds AJ here, maybe KJ but doubt it
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Spraggs
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 04:00:37 PM »

they're basically the same hand
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DMorgan
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 04:04:14 PM »

Hence the same result, probably never folding
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Spraggs
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 04:16:51 PM »

probably never folding

definitely maybe
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George2Loose
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 04:20:57 PM »

Dave is right. You can show them the nuts 7 times and they'll still call you the 8th cos you could be bluffing.

Although I still open 64ss utg. Fuck folding that!
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Ole Ole Ole Ole!
Eso Kral
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 04:22:10 PM »

Dave is right. You can show them the nuts 7 times and they'll still call you the 8th cos you could be bluffing.

Although I still open 64ss utg. Fuck folding that!
Lololol I knew you would have my back goose!!!  Wink
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Andrew Charles Blacklock - Lived for those he loved and those he loved remember.
George2Loose
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 04:24:01 PM »

Dave is right. You can show them the nuts 7 times and they'll still call you the 8th cos you could be bluffing.

Although I still open 64ss utg. Fuck folding that!
Lololol I knew you would have my back goose!!!  Wink

Yeh pretty much whenever says "fold pre" you can bet your last dollar that I would be clicking the raise button
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Ole Ole Ole Ole!
Dubai
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 04:27:02 PM »

LilDave gives real good reasons why its not a great hand in a single raised pot- when semi deep it probably is a better hand to 3bet in position with than it is to open UTG
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