Important - New Tournament Charges at Dusk Till Dawn from 1st April 2012

[robyong]

Tournament Registration Fees at Dusk Till Dawn Club

Effective from Monday 16th April, after the UKIPT, we will be changing the way we charge registration fees at Dusk Till Dawn on all new tournaments, ones that we have already qualified players for like the £150 supersized will have to stay the same. It’s very important that everyone understands how this will work. Here are the new charges and how they will work for all tournaments set up from 1st April.

• Dusk Till Dawn Club tournaments will no longer have the registration fee added to the buy-in, for example;

Super 50 will no longer £50 + £8, it will be just £50

•   Dusk Till Dawn Club will deduct 10% from the total number of entries X buy-ins as its fees (for comps at buy-ins less than £50, there will be a minimum deduction of £5 per for 1 day tournament and £10 for a 2 day+ tournament), for example;

If we had 200 entries for a Super 50, we will deduct 200 x £50 x 10% = £1000, instead of charging 200 x £8 reg fee = £1600

•   Dusk Till Dawn Club tournaments GTE prizepools will still be the prizepool that is shared between the players, for example

If the GTE for a Super 50 is £10,000, this is £10,000 that the players win, therefore we would need to generate 220 entries to meet the GTE, instead of 200 previously, if the Super 50 only got 200 entries, Dusk Till Dawn would get zero revenue from the tournament, it would all go to the players

The reasons for this are;

1.   To make the world a simpler place for players, a £50 buy-in is a £50 buy-in, a Super 50 is a Super 50, not a Super 58! Therefore all players, no matter how experienced, can easily relate their total expenditure to their potential win

2.   To reduce the cost of entry and registration in our tournaments i.e. a £150 comp actually is a £168 comp in reality, on the new system, the player pays £150 (full stop) and 10% is deducted before the GTE prizepool, in this case, £15 instead of £18

3. It is something we have wanted to put in place for ages, I've never understood why there is such a thing as a reg fee on top of a buy-in, yes, venues cannot deal comps for nothing, especially with higher taxes etc but lets not try and make the entry look "less", players know that £500 + £60 is actually £560 out of their pocket

Important
I am not aware of anyone else except the WSOP that has uses this charging structure and they do not GTE their events, based on our current tournament numbers, this will cost Dusk Till Dawn £125,000 + per annum to make these changes just on reductions in registration fees alone, before you build in any shortfall in hitting our GTE’s, so it’s a pretty bold move. However, before we put a halo on the Club, we have done this in the hope that we get uplift in player numbers that covers this reduction in tournament income and then everybody is a winner!

If you have any questions - please stick them on this thread and I will answer them personally!

Cheers Rob

[BorntoBubble]

any chance of a reduction in rate for the cash or is this asking to much! mabye 5% rake capped at 7-10 rather then 10% rake? or more charges tables rather then rake tables! Or just a good cash game bonus!

But i think the tournement change is a good change!

[FallenAngelAlex]

hi rob. Its great to see a club finally realising what looks far more attractive to the player. I totally agree that to add the price of the buy in on the end does seem a bit of a silly one. I wonder how long it will take other venues to catch on. I do however have one concern. On your post you explain about tournaments that are under £50. Please correct me if im wrong. A minimum charge of £5 if the event is a one day event which is fair enough. But if the same price buy in is over a two day event then the minimum charge doubles to ten pound? That would be a minimum of 20% taken off. For example (and i appriciate this may not happen): one day tournament priced at £40 the £5 would be just one eighth of the total but if the same tournament was over two days a whopping 25% would be taken because the minimum for a two day event is £10. Am i reading this right?

[kinboshi]

Staking threads just got easier.

[leethefish]

I love this idea

[AdamM]

well done DTD, great move with this.

[AndrewT]

players know that £500 + £60 is actually £560 out of their pocket

I'm not that entirely sure that they consciously do - for a lot of them they talk of a £500 comp and that's what sticks in their head, and it's only when they pay that they realise it isn't, and even then it's no more than a passing thought.

It's the same as people subconsciously thinking something at £99.99 is not in the same price bracket as something which is £100

[Sweetman]

Great move,

You didn't NEED to do this, in my opinion the reg fees, while slightly higher than competitors, fairly represented the level of quality of tournaments being run at DTD.

Its great that you have made these changes though, things just keep getting better for the player at DTD.

[Skippy]

Dislike.

1) I don't like places that hide what the juice is. The reason they just say a round number at the WSOP and other Vegas casinos is because they don't want you to know what the juice is. I once asked what the juice was on a 2+2 thread for the Venetian Deep Stack Extravaganza. The answer I got from the Venitian rep was that it was posted on the walls of their room. WTF? I'm supposed to fly to Vegas only to find out it was 20%? (it's probably not 20%, but I still don't know what it was) Just be honest.

Now, I know you are being open about how much you are charging and not trying to hide it, but £X+Y is the most honest way of displaying a tournament cost. Just make it £45+5 if you want it to be a round number. It also makes it easier to cheat us, as 200 runners x £50 is easy to work out, whereas 200 runners x £45.50 or whatever is going into the prize pool is not. I'm not suggesting you would try and cheat us, but you need to be seen to run a straight game as well as actually running a straight game. In summary, transparency is down with this change.

Along with scrapping your deal making policy you're removing something else that I admired Dusk for.

2) From your point of view, why are you lowering reg fees on tournaments? They are already too cheap. You are already dealing them at a loss. You are not going to get one extra player because of this reg fee change- as someone else above me says, people see the £50 element, and don't stop to think about the +£8, unless it was something ridiculous like £50+£50.

The trouble with this when you make these "cut-your-own-throat" business decisions is that you then spend forever hassling me via email, hassling me by text message, hassling me via Facebook, giving me flyers, and covering blonde with posts all saying "support your club" as if it was my fault that you are running a loss on something.

If you want to cut prices, reduce the cash rake to 5% on .50/1. That would make a real positive difference to the number of players in your club.

[MC]

2) From your point of view, why are you lowering reg fees on tournaments? They are already too cheap.

[  ] Agree

They are currently the max they can be. Anything above 10% rake is not too low.

[TightEnd]

I've read Skippy's post several times and still don't agree that is a negative. A pretty major benefit for regular players there, I would have thought

[Skippy]

2) From your point of view, why are you lowering reg fees on tournaments? They are already too cheap.

[  ] Agree

They are currently the max they can be. Anything above 10% rake is not too low.

Give over! You spend all day paying 8% rake on reg-infested online tournaments where all PokerStars have to do are a) turn a server on b) watch the server, so virtually 100% profit.

£50+8 is still a great deal for a live tournament full of fish where they have to pay for lights, tables, cards, dealers, chips, heating, rent etc.

[Killerkilsby]

Think its great now that £8 from a super 50 can be used towards fuel or food costs.

[MC]

2) From your point of view, why are you lowering reg fees on tournaments? They are already too cheap.

[  ] Agree

They are currently the max they can be. Anything above 10% rake is not too low.

Give over! You spend all day paying 8% rake on reg-infested online tournaments where all PokerStars have to do are a) turn a server on b) watch the server, so virtually 100% profit.

£50+8 is still a great deal for a live tournament full of fish where they have to pay for lights, tables, cards, dealers, chips, heating, rent etc.

You think people would play a £500+100 tournament?

Let's rake the fish to death so they have even less chance of winning!

[Skippy]

I've read Skippy's post several times and still don't agree that is a negative. A pretty major benefit for regular players there, I would have thought

Yeah, sure, lower rake is great for me. But I'm trying to think about the club too. a) They are already dealing comps at a loss b) They are not unreasonably priced at the moment. Why cut prices? I like playing at DTD, and would like the place to do well.