Tottenham's goal against Chelsea

[George2Loose]

What about this Scenario - Adebayor clean through, takes it round Cech who comes and cleans out Ade, the ball immediately rolls to JT who realises his keeper is about to get his marching orders, so he then decides to score an o.g and save his keeper, could this happen!?!

Exactly. That's why he should be sent off regardless

[George2Loose]

Sending the keeper off for almost any foul he commits he one of the stupidest rules they introduced into football.

This.

Very harsh on keepers IMO, its a bit on the obvious side that if a keeper fouls he will more than likely prevent a goalscoring opportunity but they come out with their hands thats not exactly too dangerous either, so they should be allowed get away with one, I'm surprised keepers aren't sent off regularly for this, If a striker is clean through and one on one then the keeper must be thinking if I even attempt to save this and foul I'm gone, bit of a tightrope....

Problem is, if you allow the keeper to "get away" with one. They will deffo clear up the striker if they're 99% certain to score in favour of a penalty.

[sweet potata!]

Lets tweak it then George, we will say if the ref deems the keeper to have made a genuine attempt at winning the ball, not a deliberate take him out cos hes gonna score type thing....

[kinboshi]

Champions League semi-final, Chelsea v Liverpool.

Garcia's scores (did the ball cross the line or not?  It was certainly more over the line than Mata's goal yesterday!) after Cech has brought down Baros.  If the goal wasn't given, would the ref had awarded a penalty and sent Cech off?

[gatso]

What about this Scenario - Adebayor clean through, takes it round Cech who comes and cleans out Ade, the ball immediately rolls to JT who realises his keeper is about to get his marching orders, so he then decides to score an o.g and save his keeper, could this happen!?!

no. ball rolling to jt means the goalscoring opp has been denied so it's red and an o.g. credited to a really dumb jt

[gatso]

What about this Scenario - Adebayor clean through, takes it round Cech who comes and cleans out Ade, the ball immediately rolls to JT who realises his keeper is about to get his marching orders, so he then decides to score an o.g and save his keeper, could this happen!?!

no. ball rolling to jt means the goalscoring opp has been denied so it's red and an o.g. credited to a really dumb jt

actually that's probs not right. he should probs blow up immediately and give the pen before the og is scored as there's no advantage so red card and penalty

[Ant040689]

Sending the keeper off for almost any foul he commits he one of the stupidest rules they introduced into football.

Sending a player off for denying them a clear goalscoring opportunity is the problem. It should be send the player off if they foul a player with no intent of going for the ball with a goalscoring opportuntiy, so a 'professional' foul. The other fouls should be a yellow. It's terrible to see a through ball go over the top of the last defender and as both him and the striker turn there is an unavoidable clash of legs and the defender is sent off even though he tried his best not to foul the striker, was accidental.

Also the definition of a clear goalscoring opportunity is a little hazy.

he shouldn't be sent off because he hasn't made a challenge that's worthy of a sending off. the only possible thing he can see red for is if he prevents a goal scoring opportunity but as the ball runs to bale he hasn't done this so no red regardless of whether bale scores or not

if bale chose to step over the ball then he gives a pen for the foul but no card as the scoring opportunity was still there

if the challenge is worse i.e. violent conduct then it's a red regardless of whether bale scores or a pen is given as the denying of a goalscoring opportunity point is moot

Disagree.

That was a red for me as adebayor was forced to go around cech because of his presence, was about to and then gets mauled down. If he wasn't taken out he would have had an easy tap in after sidestepping Cech. The fact the goalscoring opportunity came to Bale was because Cech had stopped Adebayor's initial goalscoring opportunity and for doing that by the letter of the law you has gots to go.

ref obv disagrees with you or he would've shown red after the goal was scored

from law 12

Advantage should not be applied in situations involving serious foul play unless
there is a clear subsequent opportunity to score a goal. The referee must send
off the player guilty of serious foul play when the ball is next out of play.
A player who is guilty of serious foul play should be sent off and play is
restarted with a direct free kick from the position where the offence occurred
(see Law 13 – Position of free kick) or a penalty kick (if the offence occurred
inside the offender’s penalty area).

If you look back to my previous post it shoots a hole through what you have said in that the ref disagrees with my viewpoint. I have not heard of one incidence where there has been a red card shown after an advantage was played after a defender/goalkeeper had denied the oppo player a clear goalscoring opportunity. So the ref yesterday almost certainly viewed Cech's challenge on Adebayor as a red card offence but as it was an advantage for a penalty it is a sort of unspoken loophole to not go back and book or send off the player who committed the foul for the penalty, because to my knowledge there hasn't been ANY situation where this has occured.

So are we all in agreement that Bale's goal should have stood as played with the advantage but after the goal was scored Cech should have been sent off?

[Ant040689]

Sending the keeper off for almost any foul he commits he one of the stupidest rules they introduced into football.

Sending a player off for denying them a clear goalscoring opportunity is the problem. It should be send the player off if they foul a player with no intent of going for the ball with a goalscoring opportuntiy, so a 'professional' foul. The other fouls should be a yellow. It's terrible to see a through ball go over the top of the last defender and as both him and the striker turn there is an unavoidable clash of legs and the defender is sent off even though he tried his best not to foul the striker, was accidental.

Also the definition of a clear goalscoring opportunity is a little hazy.

he shouldn't be sent off because he hasn't made a challenge that's worthy of a sending off. the only possible thing he can see red for is if he prevents a goal scoring opportunity but as the ball runs to bale he hasn't done this so no red regardless of whether bale scores or not

if bale chose to step over the ball then he gives a pen for the foul but no card as the scoring opportunity was still there

if the challenge is worse i.e. violent conduct then it's a red regardless of whether bale scores or a pen is given as the denying of a goalscoring opportunity point is moot

Disagree.

That was a red for me as adebayor was forced to go around cech because of his presence, was about to and then gets mauled down. If he wasn't taken out he would have had an easy tap in after sidestepping Cech. The fact the goalscoring opportunity came to Bale was because Cech had stopped Adebayor's initial goalscoring opportunity and for doing that by the letter of the law you has gots to go.

ref obv disagrees with you or he would've shown red after the goal was scored

from law 12

Advantage should not be applied in situations involving serious foul play unless
there is a clear subsequent opportunity to score a goal. The referee must send
off the player guilty of serious foul play when the ball is next out of play.
A player who is guilty of serious foul play should be sent off and play is
restarted with a direct free kick from the position where the offence occurred
(see Law 13 – Position of free kick) or a penalty kick (if the offence occurred
inside the offender’s penalty area).

If you look back to my previous post it shoots a hole through what you have said in that the ref disagrees with my viewpoint. I have not heard of one incidence where there has been a red card shown after an advantage was played after a defender/goalkeeper had denied the oppo player a clear goalscoring opportunity with a foul in the penalty area. So the ref yesterday almost certainly viewed Cech's challenge on Adebayor as a red card offence but as it was an advantage for a penalty it is a sort of unspoken loophole to not go back and book or send off the player who committed the foul for the penalty, because to my knowledge there hasn't been ANY situation where this has occured.

So are we all in agreement that Bale's goal should have stood as played with the advantage but after the goal was scored Cech should have been sent off?

Edit wasn't working so edited the above. second from last paragraph for clarity.

[sweet potata!]

What about this Scenario - Adebayor clean through, takes it round Cech who comes and cleans out Ade, the ball immediately rolls to JT who realises his keeper is about to get his marching orders, so he then decides to score an o.g and save his keeper, could this happen!?!

no. ball rolling to jt means the goalscoring opp has been denied so it's red and an o.g. credited to a really dumb jt

actually that's probs not right. he should probs blow up immediately and give the pen before the og is scored as there's no advantage so red card and penalty

Lets pretend JT did a bit of split second thinking after the ball insta rolled to him and tapped it home before the ref pulled the trigger or blew the whistle if you will!

I was just posting what someone else posted on BF and agree with you though gatso!

[sweet potata!]

I dont agree anth, It's harsh on keepers.

[gatso]

So are we all in agreement that Bale's goal should have stood as played with the advantage but after the goal was scored Cech should have been sent off?

no, absolutely not

[Ant040689]

So are we all in agreement that Bale's goal should have stood as played with the advantage but after the goal was scored Cech should have been sent off?

no, absolutely not

So you think the ref saw the cech challenge on adebayor and thought it didn't even deserve a booking.

[gatso]

Lets pretend JT did a bit of split second thinking after the ball insta rolled to him and tapped it home before the ref pulled the trigger or blew the whistle if you will!

ref still pulls it back and gives the pen and red card I guess?

So you think the ref saw the cech challenge on adebayor and thought it didn't even deserve a booking.

that's a different discussion and I'm probably more likely to agree with you on that one. but as for the red card he certainly didn't see serious foul play or violent conduct so there's nothing to send him off for

[Ant040689]

Lets pretend JT did a bit of split second thinking after the ball insta rolled to him and tapped it home before the ref pulled the trigger or blew the whistle if you will!

ref still pulls it back and gives the pen and red card I guess?

So you think the ref saw the cech challenge on adebayor and thought it didn't even deserve a booking.

that's a different discussion and I'm probably more likely to agree with you on that one. but as for the red card he certainly didn't see serious foul play or violent conduct so there's nothing to send him off for

Both our points sidetracked eachother instead of being in opposition all along, just realised what was going on. Serious foul play would mean an advantage would not be allowed to go on, however a red card offence could be allowed to continue through advantage as long as its not serious foul play. So in theory what i proposed should have happened could have been implemented in theory? Or am i missing something?

Gatso if you disagree with what i proposed should have happened via the letter of the law, what do you think should have happened?

[WarBwastard]

I'm just glad the laws of the game are so clear and allow the officials to make snap decisions under pressure.