Jeremy Clarkson on Airport Immgration Delays

[Woodsey]

Don't really like the guy, but the man has a point, sometimes common sense is needed.........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9247835/Jeremy-Clarkson-claims-airport-delays-could-be-solved-with-a-bit-of-racism.html

[The Camel]

Don't really like the guy, but the man has a point, sometimes common sense is needed.........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9247835/Jeremy-Clarkson-claims-airport-delays-could-be-solved-with-a-bit-of-racism.html

Absolutely no doubt that many customs officers are racist.

Black travelers seem to be 100 times more likely to have their bags searched than white travelers.

[redarmi]

My wife is Jamaican (with a US green card) and whenever we/she travel she is singled out for special security clearances and I have never been.  I don't really know what that can be other than racism because literally everything about us suggests I should be the target rather than her really.

[Royal Flush]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

[RED-DOG]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

That's an interesting point and I've given it a bit of though, but basically, doesn't it amount to the same thing. i.e. attributing traits / behaviour patterns to someone because of their race?

I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm just struggling to separate the two.

[AndrewT]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

That's an interesting point and I've given it a bit of though, but basically, doesn't it amount to the same thing. i.e. attributing traits / behaviour patterns to someone because of their race?

I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm just struggling to separate the two.

Think of it in poker terms.

When we sit at a new table with people we've never played before, the 'right' thing to do would be to not make any snap judgements about the other players, wait until we've seen enough of their play to be able to judge them on that.

But we get involved in the first hand, and we're three way with a young Swedish guy and an old Chinese man.

Do we assume they have default, neutral styles or do we assume they play differently?

[ManuelsMum]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

That's an interesting point and I've given it a bit of though, but basically, doesn't it amount to the same thing. i.e. attributing traits / behaviour patterns to someone because of their race?

I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm just struggling to separate the two.

I'm struggling also.

[ ] Most darkskinned people are terrorists.

[ ] There's ever been a convicted ginger-haired caucasian al-qaeda bomber.

[DMorgan]

Like a great many of these 'first world problems' it would also help greatly if people stopped being whiney little bitches about it. Years ago when it was much faster to get through the border so we had The Sun and various other snotrags screaming bloody murder about too many illegal immigrants and now that more checks are in place the queues are too long. Oh the inhumanity - what if the vending machines ran out of vitamin water too!

I guess my getting quizzed for 2 hours and having a full baggage search last time I went to the US can go down as a win for the liberals against racial profiling though. Clarkson would be livid.

[MANTIS01]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

That's an interesting point and I've given it a bit of though, but basically, doesn't it amount to the same thing. i.e. attributing traits / behaviour patterns to someone because of their race?

I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm just struggling to separate the two.

As far as I'm aware anybody who has brought down a plane in recent times or anybody been caught trying to has had brown skin. As such placing special emphasis on people with brown skin is completely reasonable. Profiling is essential because getting through an airport would take all day if such measures weren't in place. I am fine with it because the person with brown skin isn't disadvantaged or less equal in the scheme of humanity, they are simply put within the boundaries of a profile for security and safety reasons, including their own.

Whilst I'm ok with brown skin profiling right now I think it will be less effective in the future because Al Qaeda are smart cookies and soon enough they will be using white people to combat it. Thus it must be organic and change with the times. Right now it is people with brown skin who are factually more likely to commit these crimes and hence why they are targeted more often. That is not racism or anything close to it imo.

[redarmi]

If we look at people that have brought down planes then you are correct although the term brown skin is a convenient catch all because by no means have they all been from the same racial background.  The shoe bomber was from a mixed family none of whom were muslim and the underwear bomber was a black African from one of the richest families in the region.  Germaine Lesley was born in Jamaica and was black.  Of course using the tiny sample size of people that try and blow up planes is pretty unrepresentative.  In order to get a decent sample size you would need to extend the sample to all cases of terrorism for a decent period of time and then all of a sudden you need to include all people of Irish descent, Japanese descent, white American descent and even nice white boys from Surrey who have decided to blow up blacks, Asians and gays.  Do we really think if Anders Breivik or Timothy McVeigh had the wherewithal to take a plane and fly it into the white house or Norwegian parliament they might not have been tempted?

[kinboshi]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

That's an interesting point and I've given it a bit of though, but basically, doesn't it amount to the same thing. i.e. attributing traits / behaviour patterns to someone because of their race?

I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm just struggling to separate the two.

As far as I'm aware anybody who has brought down a plane in recent times or anybody been caught trying to has had brown skin. As such placing special emphasis on people with brown skin is completely reasonable. Profiling is essential because getting through an airport would take all day if such measures weren't in place. I am fine with it because the person with brown skin isn't disadvantaged or less equal in the scheme of humanity, they are simply put within the boundaries of a profile for security and safety reasons, including their own.

Whilst I'm ok with brown skin profiling right now I think it will be less effective in the future because Al Qaeda are smart cookies and soon enough they will be using white people to combat it. Thus it must be organic and change with the times. Right now it is people with brown skin who are factually more likely to commit these crimes and hence why they are targeted more often. That is not racism or anything close to it imo.

They've all been men too (I think), so why search women?

[rex008]

If we look at people that have brought down planes then you are correct although the term brown skin is a convenient catch all because by no means have they all been from the same racial background.  The shoe bomber was from a mixed family none of whom were muslim and the underwear bomber was a black African from one of the richest families in the region.  Germaine Lesley was born in Jamaica and was black.  Of course using the tiny sample size of people that try and blow up planes is pretty unrepresentative.  In order to get a decent sample size you would need to extend the sample to all cases of terrorism for a decent period of time and then all of a sudden you need to include all people of Irish descent, Japanese descent, white American descent and even nice white boys from Surrey who have decided to blow up blacks, Asians and gays.  Do we really think if Anders Breivik or Timothy McVeigh had the wherewithal to take a plane and fly it into the white house or Norwegian parliament they might not have been tempted?

Muslims tend to be much more willing to kill themselves in the process though. Not that that means targeting brown skinned people. There are plenty of caucasian muslims. But you're kind of arguing against yourself, as we're specifically talking about security checks at airports here. When was the last time the IRA flew a plane into a building?

[MANTIS01]

It would be quite ineffective to profile based upon historical conflict rather than current conflict. If the IRA were active today and a distinct terror threat to planes today undoubtedly they would be included within a profile today. Like I said profiling must be organic so it's a bit redundant to say eg Germans should be included in the profile because they bombed us in 1942. Any person from any ethnic group is equally capable of atrocity but because there are only so many hours in the day and there are millions of people to profile the security agencies will target the most likely first based on current conflict profiling. 

[MintTrav]

I thought this discussion was about people entering the country after they had got off the plane rather than about blowing up the plane or forcing it to crash.

[BangBang]

Is there not a difference between racism and racial profiling, or for that matter nation profiling?

That's an interesting point and I've given it a bit of though, but basically, doesn't it amount to the same thing. i.e. attributing traits / behaviour patterns to someone because of their race?

I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm just struggling to separate the two.

As far as I'm aware anybody who has brought down a plane in recent times or anybody been caught trying to has had brown skin. As such placing special emphasis on people with brown skin is completely reasonable. Profiling is essential because getting through an airport would take all day if such measures weren't in place. I am fine with it because the person with brown skin isn't disadvantaged or less equal in the scheme of humanity, they are simply put within the boundaries of a profile for security and safety reasons, including their own.

Whilst I'm ok with brown skin profiling right now I think it will be less effective in the future because Al Qaeda are smart cookies and soon enough they will be using white people to combat it. Thus it must be organic and change with the times. Right now it is people with brown skin who are factually more likely to commit these crimes and hence why they are targeted more often. That is not racism or anything close to it imo.

Come on Mantis, that's a very trivial concept that you're endorsing. There's been more terrorist attacks in the UK caused by people of "Caucasian decent" then Brown skin if you want to put it in those terms.  Also I'm sure Jeremy Clarkson is talking about the queues of people waiting to get into the UK as opposed to out.  Take a look at the attempts to take planes down from the UK, "Redarmi" puts across the case well in saying that the sample size that you are going off is limited.  

We all know that the tabloids preach a lot of propaganda and sometimes the truth gets lost.. I don't want start talking about conspiracy theories and preaching my views on you all but come on, we spend £43 Billion a year on Defense, so threats foreign and domestic and only £23 Billion a year on Education, our border controls shouldn't just be quicker they should be more efficient in stopping threats before they even reach our shores..

Saying that and being a brown person myself I have had no issues with border control at any airport that I've visited in the last 30 years, maybe because I have an English name or maybe because I have a friendly face I don't know.  what I do know is that this country needs to start spending less on Welfare and more on Education, the root of all evil is lack of education and social integration because of it.  

Education and optimism is what made Britain Great.  We need start spending more on Education, instead trying to defend a country with a population of 62 million with Nuclear weapons and allowing people that live off the state to have a similar lifestyle to working class folk...