Poll: Your views required please on Re-entry tournaments

[TightEnd]

Most, if not all, Live Tournament providers are offering re-entries to some of their Live tournaments

Whether its a WSOP or WPT event, a DTD/GUKPT/Genting event or a smaller local event held over a couple of day ones

The Poll attached to this thread asks for your opinion, as follows:

I prefer a tournament where;

1    I have the option to re-enter the same day AND also the option to re-enter into future Day 1’s (max 4 bullets)
 
2   I only have the option to re-enter into Day 1b (max 2 bullets)
  
3  There is no re-entry option (max 1 bullet)


Please take into account the type of tournament you usually play, and your circumstances as to bankroll/travelling expenses etc, and indicate what you would like to see as the norm

All posts and feedback on the subject welcomed

thanks

[TightEnd]

This was written a few months ago on the subject...referring to some of the upsdies/downsides of re-entries


One of the most polarising issues in the poker world today is the emergence of re-entry tournaments and whether or not they are good for the overall health of the poker industry and economy.

A re-entry event is different from a rebuy event in that a player cannot “re-entry” until he has been already eliminated from the tournament. While some events allow players to buy back in immediately, others force them to wait until the next starting day.

The concept is nothing new, but in a down economy, re-entry events have become the latest trend on the always-evolving tournament circuit.

The theory is that by lowering the buy-in and allowing players to re-enter the tournament, you’ll get the best of both worlds. Those with the bankrolls to gamble it up in the early levels will juice the prize pool and those with smaller bankrolls will get to enjoy a shot at a big payday for a smaller entry fee.

Bellagio tournament director Jack McClelland’s current main event isn’t a re-entry fan, but he did experiment with the new freezeout variation during his preliminary events. When asked whether it was casino profit, the need for change or customer demand that motivated him to host the event, he said, “all of the above.”

“When things were really rolling in the poker world, we had tons of players for our regular freezeouts,” said McClelland. “Then when the economy took a dive, we tried to increase our prize pools by offering rebuys. Those didn’t really work out, because they scared away those with lower bankrolls who couldn’t afford multiple buy-ins. So far, it looks like re-entry events appeal to players of all bankrolls. The buy-ins are low enough to bring in casual players, but still allow the pros to come in and do their thing.”

The World Poker Tour has popularized these events in the last year, lowering their buy-ins at some marquee stops in California, New Jersey and Florida to $3,500 from their traditional $10,000 and creating multiple starting days. The end result has been bigger fields, but also more money for the host casino. Not only are the players raked on each re-entry, but they are also staying at the casinos for longer periods of time, taking up rooms in the hotel and filling the restaurants each night.

In the UK major festival events are becoming re-entries. For example at a recent DTD Supersized Deepstack of 643 total entries over 100 were re-entries. In some cases, players had four entries. Of course this swells prize pools, and is good news for venues. However does it put those without the bankroll to do this at a disadvantage in game play?

[pokerfan]

Unlimted re-entry not an option ?

[TightEnd]

Unlimted re-entry not an option ?

Not in the poll, but if that is your preference please say so and why.

[pokerfan]

If you're going to have it all, I just can't see a reason for it to be capped.

[welsh1980]

Really hope its re-entry on the same day-  to travel 4 hours and busto early with no chance of a 2nd bullet would probably mean more accomodation costs

[TightEnd]

Really hope its re-entry on the same day-  to travel 4 hours and busto early with no chance of a 2nd bullet would probably mean more accomodation costs

Do you prefer re-entry over no re-entries at all?

[FUN4FRASER]

In an Ideal world I would pick option 3 (no re entries at all) as its a pure poker game played as a freezeout  , however with the emergence of re entry tournaments , I prefer the option of a second bullet on the same day , so If Im travelling or have to have my kids or other commitments for one day that weekend I can plan my time a lot  better .

Simon has stated in the 500K guaranteed tournament ,It is capped at 333 runners per day (3 day 1 starts) so 999 makes the 500K guarantee but so as to avoid a sweat come day 1C  I would of thought you would want as many entrants" in the bank " as possible . Surely  restricting re entries on the same days will affect the final figures ?

If its the case that DTD can only accomadate 333 runners fair enough but of course every time players want a re entry it will mean there will have been knocked out and effectively freed up their own seat so unless Im missing something  re entry on the same day just seems like a win win situation

Dusk Till Dawns poker initiatives have been absolutely awesome and I hope they see my comments as constructive to help the cause rather than demanding

Keep Up the Good Work Guys .

[smashedagain]

I voted for option 3 being the pure freezeout as it suits me personally. Having said that I've usually played 1b of Dtd's comps and had to use a second bullet the last three times. On pure freezeouts I prefer to play 1a knowing that I can't buy back in it I bust and having a days rest before returning for day 2

[Tommy Bingham]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section.
In relation to the re-entrees, payouts ect. Sorry if it is long!

Firstly, Re-entry on the same day I reckon is a must. Especially the guys within the 1-3 hour travel bracket, which I'm guessing is 60% of the field.
After busting first bullet, sometimes you just cannot be arsed to drive back the next day or spend money on petrol, hotels etc (see my second point below). But, having the reentry will put more money in the prizepool! Increased numbers and bigger pots as the online qualifiers, distant travellers and others, are more willing build a pot to get it in with a sicko draw, rather than hit first then ship. If they can use a second bullet, they sigh..have a ciggy, sigh again and buy in again.

Secondly, I know its better marketing wise to see £200k/£300k top prize and make the headlines.
But from a customer point of view, for tournaments that are 2-5 days, making only 1.2 on investment is sometimes disappointing. Only as it doesn't cover expenses - Petrol, Hotels, Food, Drinks, and occasional spews on roulette or that stupid Pharaohs Fortune!

People nit up stupidly and ruins the play and momentum of the tournament.. look I know this payment structure is pretty standard across the European board, but this is why play is so slow pre and post bubble. People want to make there money back. For a £500 buy in, I don't see a problem with min cash being £900-£1000. Just chop it off the top. This is general feedback from a majority of non-regular players I have asked. YES, I know the bubble and play before will last longer, but the better players left will take advantage of it, leaving the nitty guys less space later on in the torney. It would give more play from 2 tables to the final. No 3BigBlind limp/fold player on the final and no guy with 9bigs set mining with deuces, who wants to bag his £900 jump up.

Honestly, I am not fused either way. I will adhere to any changes DTD make. But generally, the Non-Regs (unqiue hits) are dropping, causing the total numbers to drop and guarantees to drop and still not be hit. There isn't much money about. It just shows with the tournaments at the moment; £20 comps getting more runners than a super £50. Super £50 sometimes getting more than a £150 DS etc.

Its about general value. And lately, people just don't wona put up the dollar.

[AndrewT]

Tournaments originally started purely as ways to attract players to play cash games when they busted out.

How have cash games done at DTD since reentries were introduced?

[FUN4FRASER]

]Apologies if this is in the wrong section.
In relation to the re-entrees, payouts ect. Sorry if it is long!

Firstly, Re-entry on the same day I reckon is a must. Especially the guys within the 1-3 hour travel bracket, which I'm guessing is 60% of the field.
After busting first bullet, sometimes you just cannot be arsed to drive back the next day or spend money on petrol, hotels etc (see my second point below). But, having the reentry will put more money in the prizepool! Increased numbers and bigger pots as the online qualifiers, distant travellers and others, are more willing build a pot to get it in with a sicko draw, rather than hit first then ship. If they can use a second bullet, they sigh..have a ciggy, sigh again and buy in again.

Secondly, I know its better marketing wise to see £200k/£300k top prize and make the headlines.
But from a customer point of view, for tournaments that are 2-5 days, making only 1.2 on investment is sometimes disappointing. Only as it doesn't cover expenses - Petrol, Hotels, Food, Drinks, and occasional spews on roulette or that stupid Pharaohs Fortune!

People nit up stupidly and ruins the play and momentum of the tournament.. look I know this payment structure is pretty standard across the European board, but this is why play is so slow pre and post bubble. People want to make there money back. For a £500 buy in, I don't see a problem with min cash being £900-£1000. Just chop it off the top. This is general feedback from a majority of non-regular players I have asked. YES, I know the bubble and play before will last longer, but the better players left will take advantage of it, leaving the nitty guys less space later on in the torney. It would give more play from 2 tables to the final. No 3BigBlind limp/fold player on the final and no guy with 9bigs set mining with deuces, who wants to bag his £900 jump up.

Honestly, I am not fused either way. I will adhere to any changes DTD make. But generally, the Non-Regs (unqiue hits) are dropping, causing the total numbers to drop and guarantees to drop and still not be hit. There isn't much money about. It just shows with the tournaments at the moment; £20 comps getting more runners than a super £50. Super £50 sometimes getting more than a £150 DS etc.
]Its about general value.[ And lately, people just don't wona put up the dollar.

I understand the first two lines...then it becomes white noise.

[Da Bookie]

The re-entry format has been an interesting development in the game. I always think you should never chase your money so mentally I find it hard to re-enter a tournament having said that if you are +EV for the first bullet then you are +EV for the second so re-entry favours the better players.
     The re-entry format has certainly changed the early play in tournaments and you can normally pick out who is conscious of the fact they have a second life relatively quickly again +EV for the better players.
     In conclusion option 1 gets my vote and my personal strategy is to play the last starting day and not re-enter most of the time purely as this suits my mental attitude. It will be interesting to read peoples views though.

[AndrewT]

Do re-entries toughen the field up?

If a good player gets knocked out early is he more likely to re-enter than a donk? I would have thought so so that will mean a higher shark/donk ratio than there would be in a freezeout?

One the arguments for rebuys was that the good player benefitted from the gamblers treating the rebuy stage like bingo, bumping up the prize pool. I assume that doesn't happen in a re-entry (few players will throw the chips around on the first bullet simply because it's the first bullet)

[cambridgealex]

Tournaments originally started purely as ways to attract players to play cash games when they busted out.

How have cash games done at DTD since reentries were introduced?

Not well.