blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 01:01:29 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2272484 Posts in 66752 Topics by 16945 Members
Latest Member: Zula
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  The Rail
| | |-+  The ruling thread to end them all, in the WSOP $50K....
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: The ruling thread to end them all, in the WSOP $50K....  (Read 1772 times)
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« on: June 26, 2012, 09:06:41 AM »

Pot-Limit Omaha

"Somebody get a writer over here to write this one down!" yelled out Ali Eslami from Table 360 before popping up out of his chair and looking around. PokerNews was right there and as Eslami made the cry for a reporter. "Look at this crazy five-way pot," he said. The action when our reporter arrived at the table was as follows.

From under the gun, Charles Pacheco limped in. Viktor Blom limped in from middle position and then Abe Mosseri limped in behind him in the hijack seat. Shaun Deeb then called on the button and John D'Agostino completed the bet from the small blind. Then, things got a bit interesting.

Nikolai Yakovenko was in the big blind and he raised to 12,400. Pacheco, Blom and Mosseri all made the call before action was back on Deeb. He took some time to think about his decision and then announced that he raised the pot.

Deeb actually had less than a full pot-sized raise. His stack was a total of 68,800 and he was in for all of it. D'Agostino folded his hand from the small blind and then Yakovenko took some time of his own to think. After a minute or two, Yakovenko said, "All right, I'm all in."

While Deeb had less than the pot, Yakovenko had more and wasn't exactly all in just yet, but he slid a couple of giant stacks forward. Pacheco checked his cards again and made some facial movements. Blom quickly tossed his hand away, but had acted out of turn. A little bit longer passed and Pacheco then folded. With Blom already out of the way, Mosseri was up and had a very big decision in front of him.

Mosseri had a little under 400,000 in his stack and asked Yakovenko to count his stack. Yakovenko said to Mosseri that he actually had more than the pot, but Mosseri still wanted a count on Yakovenko's entire stack. With all the chips Yakovenko had, it took him and the dealer a little bit to break down all the stacks. When it was finished, Yakovenko was said to have had 407,300. Now it was Mosseri's turn to tank.

Mosseri went into the tank, while Deeb stood up next to the table and watched. While Mosseri tanked for several minutes, a large crowd gathered around the table. Everyone wanted to see what was going on and some were commenting on the action, which Yakovenko jumped in and asked people to stop doing. Deeb backed him up and silenced the spectators.

It was several long minutes in the tank for Mosseri. D'Agostino was pacing around behind the table telling people they weren't even going to get to play another hand because of how long this had been taking. D'Agostino was very short at the time.

At one point, Mosseri was in the tank and did some talking about his hand, which Yakovenko wanted him to stop doing. There was also a point when Mosseri looked back at his cards and Greg Mueller peeked in from behind, which Yakovenko also requested be put to a stop. Mosseri also mentioned at one point that he had aces and one suit.

Mosseri tanked for what most estimated at 10-15 minutes before Yakovenko finally called the clock. Mosseri was given a minute to act on his hand by the floor staff and eventually said, "I call."

After Mosseri said he made the call, he turned his hand over, which was followed by Deeb turning his hand over and Yakovenko turning his over. Here's what was seen:

Mosseri: {A-Clubs}{A-Spades}{J-Clubs}{5-Clubs}
Deeb: {J-Hearts}{J-Spades}{10-Clubs}{7-Spades}
Yakovenko: {K-Clubs}{K-Spades}{3-Diamonds}{3-Clubs}

With all the cards turned up, the dealer quickly ran out the flop, turn and river with the {Q-Spades}{J-Diamonds}{2-Diamonds}{10-Spades}{8-Spades}. Deeb had made a spade flush to more than triple up and win the main pot. For the side pot, Mosseri's aces held up and he was the winner of that one. But then, there was more controversy.

Because Yakovenko had more than the pot and when he raised, he wasn't actually all in, but only reraised the pot, there was some issue about whether or not everyone's money actually went in. It was clear that Deeb was all in, but the side pot between Mosseri and Yakovenko was in question due to Mosseri saying only, "I call."

The floor staff was called over again and the dealer informed him that the hands were prematurely tabled with action still pending between Mosseri and Yakovenko. It took another few minutes to get the story of the hand straight and figure out what was to happen.

The pot was counted, which Eslami's iPad calculator was needed for, to determine that Yakovenko's reraise was to 246,000. With Mosseri's stack at around 150,000 more than that, the first floor ruled that the turn and river would have to be rerun as the flop action hadn't been complete. Deeb flung his arms up in the air and couldn't believe the ruling. Neither could anyone watching or the players at the adjacent tables who could hear things.

Shouts of, "That is the worst ruling of all time," and "I can't believe that's the rule," and "Are you joking?" rang out within the tournament area. Deeb spoke up and said he wasn't accepting the ruling and that he wanted the of World Series of Poker Tournament Director Jack Effel.


http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2012-world-series-of-poker/event-45-the-poker-players-championship/post.206642.htm



MORE TO COME.....
Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 09:07:55 AM »

Again, from poker News

Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
JK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2571


Probably the worst player here


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 09:20:22 AM »

You simply cannot redeal. That may be by the absolute book, but the skill to TD'ing is adjusting rules to suit the fairness of the game.

Hands were prematurely tabled, however in this case it should be treated as exposed cards and no aggressive action to be taken. Therefore, hands checks to river and amounts are kept back.

Obviously this is a high pressure situation for the floor staff, so its hard. I could be totally wrong but that is definately in the interest and fairness of the game
Logged
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 09:27:19 AM »

With the request coming from Shaun Deeb that he wanted an official ruling from World Series of Poker Tournament Director Jack Effel, the lead floor supervisor was called in and arrived on the scene within a few minutes to try and solve the issue.

This floor first needed to hear things from the dealer. By this time it had been over 20 minutes since it all began. The dealer ran through the actions to the floor, what had happened, what was said and how it ended. The floor then heard from the players again before making the final ruling.

The ruling was reversed in that it was deemed "accepted action" by all parties that all of the money was in the middle, even though Abe Mosseri had only said, "I call." Nikolai Yakovenko would have only committed about 60% of his stack by putting in the pot-sized reraised, but it was now ruled that he had to pay off Mosseri's entire lot.

There was a lot of back and forth between the players, even the ones not directly involved in the hand.
All were trying to get the entire story straight and the pot set so play could move forward. Because of the time this had taken, which was around 30 minutes at this point, the players requested something be done about putting time back on the clock. Although the other tables in the tournament weren't directly involved in the hand, all tables had suffered because everyone was paying attention to the commotion rather than playing at a normal speed.

While the back and forth between Mosseri, Yakovenko and the floor was going on, Yakovenko had told the floor about Mosseri talking about his hand and saying his cards, showing them when he looked back at them and also about how he said that he reraised the pot, but was not actually all in. There is also a little bit of back story between the two that Ali Eslami filled us in on.

Early in the night, a hand happened where Yakovenko made a wheel, but turned over the two cards he wasn't using for the wheel first. A few seconds later, he turned over the cards that showed he had a wheel and scooped the pot after slowrolling Mosseri. Mosseri was upset and picked up the chips he owed to Yakovenko and tossed them across the table. Yakovenko had pulled this move because prior to this, Mosseri was doing some unpleasant joking towards Yakovenko's play in the event.

Eventually, Mosseri said he didn't want Yakovenko to ever talk to him again and the two got quiet. Yakovenko now directed most of his attention to the floor because he was rather upset with the ruling. Mosseri, on the other hand, was busy stacking up his new stack of over 600,000 in chips. Deeb was also busy stacking up his chips as he had more than tripled his stack.

It took a few minutes to actually sort out the pot and get it correct before play resumed at the table. The players seated at Table 360 did ask the floor if there was something they could do about the time they had missed. The floor went to work on that, if possible, while the dealer dealt the next hand.

Yakovenko was left with just under 15,000 in chips and got them all in on the next hand in a hand of Limit Hold'em. He was all in preflop against Viktor Blom and Roland Israelashvili. At the showdown on the {Q-Clubs}{7-Spades}{3-Spades}{3-Hearts}{5-Diamonds} board, Yakovenko's {A-Spades}{J-Spades} couldn't beat Blom's {2-Hearts}{2-Clubs}. Israelashvili had the {A-Hearts}{J-Diamonds}. Yakvenko was eliminated, but that only brought up another issue.

With everything taking so long with the big hand, a table needed to be broken, but it was held up. The table was eventually broken and Phil Ivey took the seat of Yakovenko. The players at the table wanted more time because of the issue, but it had just been announced that there was only four hands left in the day and the clock was paused.

The table came up with a solution on the behalf of Eslami to finish out the four hands with Ivey, then remove him from the table and play an extra 15-20 minutes on their own. They believed it would be like they were "going back in time to fill the space," as Eslami put it. Problem was, Ivey said he wanted to be a part of it as he had missed some hands at the other table due to the slow play and the table not breaking because of the controversy that had happened. In the end, though, it was ruled that no time would be added and the players would simply finish their four hands for the night and then bag up their chips.

After it was all over, Yakovenko did some debating with the floor staff on the side, which lasted a few minutes. After he was done, Mosseri talked to the floor. While many of the players were leaving the tournament area following the completion of the day, a few of them complimented the floor on the correct ruling given all that had happened.


 http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2012-world-series-of-poker/event-45-the-poker-players-championship/
Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
JK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2571


Probably the worst player here


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 09:38:26 AM »

Like. Only problem with my original solution is that it can be open to somebody angling by turning over their hand and pretending they thought the money was in.

Very good job by jack there
Logged
doubleup
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7049


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 09:46:09 AM »


Blom quickly tossed his hand away, but had acted out of turn.  prick
Logged
dik9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3025



View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 09:51:55 AM »

Quote
The floor staff was called over again and the dealer informed him that the hands were prematurely tabled with action still pending between Mosseri and Yakovenko.

So why did the dealer carry on?

If the players didn't say anything until the end of the hand then the "accepted action" is the correct decision (even if I do think Jack Eiffel is a bit of a dick).
Logged

Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
dik9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3025



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 09:52:51 AM »

Is this on youtube yet lol?
Logged

Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
LeKnave
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5550


the end of days...


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 11:13:54 AM »

I cannot believe they made him pay off the rest of the guys stack.
Logged
George2Loose
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15214



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 11:23:58 AM »

I don't usually like to blame the dealer, shit happens, people make mistakes but how the fuck can he not check stacks, action, bets in a 50,000$ comp?!?!
Logged

Ole Ole Ole Ole!
doubleup
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7049


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 11:34:28 AM »

I cannot believe they made him pay off the rest of the guys stack.

So what did "he" think was going on when the cards went on their backs?
Logged
dik9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3025



View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 11:37:49 AM »

Mosseri asked for a full count of his stack (not the bet (imo the dealer should have said what the bet was not the count)) called and flipped, he knew what Yakovenko had in his stack as he had just had it counted. Yakovenko knows his stack has just been counted .... he helped count it. By not correcting and assisting in the fact that cards are on their backs as in an all-in situation. The fairest way to deal with it is to treat it as an all-in situation. Yakovenko could have easily said "what are you doing, you have just said call"? and held on to his cards. The dealer hasn't said on their backs, therefore the players have assumed between themselves that everyone is all-in. The dealer should be shot btw, this is the flagship $50k comp, surely he should have control of the table.
Logged

Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
Junior Senior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4628



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 12:10:53 PM »


Blom quickly tossed his hand away, but had acted out of turn.  prick

Fucking Internet players!
Logged
Sheriff Fatman
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6133



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 04:02:28 PM »

When in Vegas in April I had a situation similar to this where I had exposed cards in a limit game when oppo had one chip back and wasn't technically all in.  The hand played out but I then got a 1 orbit penalty for exposing the cards.

Slightly puzzled that Mosseri didn't get a similar penalty at the end of all that.
Logged

"...And If You Flash Him A Smile He'll Take Your Teeth As Deposit..."
"Sheriff Fatman" - Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine

2006 Blonde Caption Comp Ultimate Champion (to be replaced by actual poker achievements when I have any)

GUKPT Online Main Event Winner 2008 (yay, a poker achievement!)
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.211 seconds with 21 queries.