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Author Topic: Asking to see a players hand, is it bad form??  (Read 8387 times)
dik9
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« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2012, 09:31:20 PM »

To be fair, the person running Star City is just temporary at the moment, I guarantee things will improve within the month!
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The Squid
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« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2012, 01:05:59 AM »


Where I began playing in pubs and snooker-halls it was deemed the grossest violation of etiquette to ask to see a players hand once they gave you an indication that you were 'good.' As a result I always used to fast-roll people. I began earning my living by playing cash I always thought this kind of 'gentleman's understanding' should be the basis for my actions at the table as it encourages people to bluff and doesn't embarrass people who play a hand badly. However, so many people took angles against me in cash games and particularly intournaments that it's begun to ware a bit thin and i've slightly changed my stance. Now i'll only fast-roll in cash games with fish at the table and occasionally with friends.

Tournament poker is now played in a pretty serious and competitive atmosphere, even by recreational players, and there should be some common understanding of what the protocol is for showing down hands  and everyone should act upon this accordingly. Players still seem really reluctant to table there hands. If you're playing with other competent players in a tournament then umming and aaaing and expecting an opponent to show first when you've bluffed is bad etiquette and makes you look silly. However, if a fish mucks and really doesn't want to show there hand then it's also unnecessary to be calling for rulings and having dealers digging around in the muck.

One of the best things about the WSOP this year was there was a very clear protocol for who showed on the river. The way the protocol operates is far from perfect because it leads to situations where value-betting what you are pretty sure is the best hand is less +EV than checking back making your opponent show first and gaining information. However, at least there was a clearly defined etiquette that the majority of people adhered too. Currently in the UK it varies too much in place to place and this leads to confusion.

FWIW I dont think the current system used by Stars where if a player mucks the winner doesnt have to show is the solution. It leads to a lot of stand-offs on the river, forces fish to show there bluffs too often and increases the boredom of both pros and recreational players who dont get to see hands showndown.
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PizzicatoXev
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« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2012, 07:25:39 AM »

One situation that really tilts me is when I have called a bet on the river and the opponent shows half the table his cards but then refuses to show me his hand or claim/concede the pot...

Situations like that I personally think its fine to insist he shows his cards...
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« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2012, 08:27:38 AM »

One situation that really tilts me is when I have called a bet on the river and the opponent shows half the table his cards but then refuses to show me his hand or claim/concede the pot...

Situations like that I personally think its fine to insist he shows his cards...

Show one, show all. The dealer should be managing that one and taking control.
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« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2012, 09:05:36 AM »

To be fair, the person running Star City is just temporary at the moment, I guarantee things will improve within the month!
Is that a subtle I'm off to Star City post.
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dik9
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« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2012, 12:07:46 PM »

To be fair, the person running Star City is just temporary at the moment, I guarantee things will improve within the month!
Is that a subtle I'm off to Star City post.

Nope, but I know a man that is Smiley
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« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2012, 05:46:20 PM »


One of the best things about the WSOP this year was there was a very clear protocol for who showed on the river. The way the protocol operates is far from perfect because it leads to situations where value-betting what you are pretty sure is the best hand is less +EV than checking back making your opponent show first and gaining information. However, at least there was a clearly defined etiquette that the majority of people adhered too. Currently in the UK it varies too much in place to place and this leads to confusion.


What was the protocol ?
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PizzicatoXev
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« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2012, 05:54:40 PM »


Show one, show all. The dealer should be managing that one and taking control.

Should but rarely do...
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david3103
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« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2012, 06:30:10 PM »

Recent tourney at Gentings Newcastle, self-deal bleurgh, two players all in on turn,  the dealer was the caller and snap turned his hand over showing one pair on a very wet board.
Aggressor said "you're good at the moment" but kept his cards face down and mucked on the river.

As a visiting player it didn't seem worth arguing about.
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