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What's happened to Poker?
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Topic: What's happened to Poker? (Read 30421 times)
Royal Flush
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #45 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:05:29 AM »
Come to think of it she would never play in the Vic, far better standards
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Dubai
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #46 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:06:14 AM »
I refused to do an interview on my 20 minute break and got called rude and the most obnoxious person someone had ever met.
The conversation was as follows- "Do you mind if we ask you a few questions about how you got your stack"
I simply replied "no thank you"
Why should I talk about poker on a 20min break for nothing? Give away hand analysis and details for no benefit of my own
The players who happily doing this are just "playing the game"- getting their name known, sucking up trying to land non existent sponsorship deals. The whole thing is just one big cringe fest- I personally dont think poker needs media at 99% of the tournaments. It would make tournaments where media were there far more "glamorous" and could maybe get some sponsorship money added to prizepools.
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Royal Flush
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #47 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:08:17 AM »
Quote from: Dubai on October 18, 2012, 11:06:14 AM
I personally dont think poker needs media at 99% of the tournaments. It would make tournaments where media were there far more "glamorous" and could maybe get some sponsorship money added to prizepools.
Great point, never thought about it before.
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AlunB
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #48 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:10:22 AM »
Quote from: Dubai on October 18, 2012, 11:06:14 AM
I refused to do an interview on my 20 minute break and got called rude and the most obnoxious person someone had ever met.
The conversation was as follows- "Do you mind if we ask you a few questions about how you got your stack"
I simply replied "no thank you"
Why should I talk about poker on a 20min break for nothing? Give away hand analysis and details for no benefit of my own
The players who happily doing this are just "playing the game"- getting their name known, sucking up trying to land non existent sponsorship deals. The whole thing is just one big cringe fest- I personally dont think poker needs media at 99% of the tournaments. It would make tournaments where media were there far more "glamorous" and could maybe get some sponsorship money added to prizepools.
I agree with everything written here.
It's worth noting that most of the time the 'media' are paid reps for the tournament sponsor.
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Woodsey
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #49 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:15:24 AM »
Quote from: DungBeetle on October 18, 2012, 11:04:13 AM
The problem is a significant proportion of online players are not just boring to watch, they're actually deeply uninteresting individuals.
Little life experience, poor social skills and unable to hold meaningful conversations about anything other than poker. Why anyone thinks these numbnuts would be good to watch is beyond me. Most of them can't get down to the local pub without looking completely awkward and sociially deficient.
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smashedagain
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #50 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:22:44 AM »
Quote from: Dubai on October 18, 2012, 10:53:34 AM
Not read any of the previous responses but poker players DO NOT GET PAID to entertain the viewers. So i actually think players should be as unresponsive and as uncoopperative as possible towards any media. Unfortunately the egos mean that people happily do all this nonsense for nothing anyway
When TV companies want to pay poker players then im sure everyone will be grinning ear to ear
so you missed Flushy telling Tikay to sign him up?
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Jon MW
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #51 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:47:49 AM »
Quote from: AlunB on October 18, 2012, 10:36:37 AM
Quote from: tikay on October 18, 2012, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: pleno1 on October 18, 2012, 10:21:39 AM
Tikay, all, there is a pretty big recession going on around Europe yet stars still manage to attract these large fields. If you go to te event you will see there is a huge amount of young people in hoodies, maybe they are the target audience. Iw and they manage to get enough wannabe hoodies by having absolutely massive numbers week in week out.
Poker may not be big on some small networks but it's definitely not down to the way poker is portrayed on tv. If you don't think people watch tv poker and then play live poker,.. Go to any tournament in Europe and you will see people doing Tom dwans.
I am aware of the recession, & I'm aware of the mighty fine job that 'Stars do with the EPT. But mass audience potential? I don't think so.
The Hoodie Guys are NOT the target audience imo. An EPT attracts, what, 1,000 runners?
Television Audience measuring is pretty sophisticated these days, but it does not even register 4 figure viewership.
Poker is very insular, we need to look outside into the real & far bigger world.
The EPT Shows are good, I'm not saying otherwise, but the audience ratings for that sort of stuff is incredibly low. Why else would it be on at such low-traffic TV times?
A well-run Online Poker Site can & does still attract lots of sign-ups every single week, but they need to think a little different.
The Poker Hardcore Crew - the upper echelon, the "elite" who revel in watching EPT-type stuff, are an infinitesimally small section of the viewing public. TV needs to get to the rest of the world, not it's existing & captive market.
The article is splendid, & nails it. IMO, of course.
Or, and here is a controversial one, should we accept that poker is never going to be a mass market proposition?
Definitely this - there was a poker boom.
But it was a passing fashion. Now that the trend has died down what is left is just an accurate representation of it's popularity.
I agree that there are a lot of people taking the game far too seriously and boringly - but I don't think it's related to attracting or repelling new players.
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tight4better
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #52 on:
October 18, 2012, 11:55:16 AM »
I find some of the views in this thread extremely weird especially views on poker players being entertaining for the media etc.
What dubai says it's absolutely correct, the media have absolutely no right telling you how to behave at the poker table. If you're not a chatty/splashy player you have no obligation to play that way just to entertain folk on TV. After all, if you'd busted in 188th place unless you're a well known name in the poker scene they couldn't give a shit how or when you busted.
THEY ARE THERE TO MAKE MONEY, JUST LIKE YOU.
TV Cash/Tournaments should be played as they are played, that's what people want, REALISM, otherwise they'll turn up and say "This isn't what happens on TV?!", tournament TV is different especially final tables as people are nursing shorter stacks and it's usually a lot of work pre. Cash is different due to deeper stacks and personally I find Cash TV poker much more entertaining as you don't have much room for manoeuvre with 20-30 big blinds, when you have 400 it's slightly different.
A few examples of entertaining players are very few and far between, Rastafish/Devilfish are the exceptions who prove the rule but this is
their game
, they're not bigging it up for the cameras just cause they're on TV/Stream. People have been silent during deepstacks I've watched on stream and still managed to be entertaining.
I've seen a lot of "entertaining" (read: Spew) on TV where I'm pretty sure the player wasn't told after the show. EG: Antonio solario with 72o trying to bluff quads. "Thanks that was really entertaining, here's the 75k you spewed back" it's their money they are playing with, they should be able to play with it how they want, that's why poker is a great game because of all the different styles.
Personally I think unless the media are putting up either money for players (IE: Sponsorship) or money towards the prizepool so they can advertise and get the word out they don't have any right to be there. They're there for free, don't pay for interviews with players for analysis/views and it's normally only players they sponsor or who are sponsored they'll ask for views so there's very little chance for the average joe to get his/her name out into the poker world without binking the tournament in which case your name will be out there anyway.
And now to completely go against everything I've said in this thread media wise, I would happily do anything for blonde as I massively respect the work Tighty does during deepstack events to keep everyone updated. This isn't sucking up it's just "where my loyalties lie" as it were.
«
Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 11:57:22 AM by tight4better
»
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AlunB
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #53 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:01:47 PM »
Quote from: tight4better on October 18, 2012, 11:55:16 AM
I find some of the views in this thread extremely weird especially views on poker players being entertaining for the media etc.
What dubai says it's absolutely correct, the media have absolutely no right telling you how to behave at the poker table. If you're not a chatty/splashy player you have no obligation to play that way just to entertain folk on TV. After all, if you'd busted in 188th place unless you're a well known name in the poker scene they couldn't give a shit how or when you busted.
THEY ARE THERE TO MAKE MONEY, JUST LIKE YOU.
TV Cash/Tournaments should be played as they are played, that's what people want, REALISM, otherwise they'll turn up and say "This isn't what happens on TV?!", tournament TV is different especially final tables as people are nursing shorter stacks and it's usually a lot of work pre. Cash is different due to deeper stacks and personally I find Cash TV poker much more entertaining as you don't have much room for manoeuvre with 20-30 big blinds, when you have 400 it's slightly different.
A few examples of entertaining players are very few and far between, Rastafish/Devilfish are the exceptions who prove the rule but this is
their game
, they're not bigging it up for the cameras just cause they're on TV/Stream. People have been silent during deepstacks I've watched on stream and still managed to be entertaining.
I've seen a lot of "entertaining" (read: Spew) on TV where I'm pretty sure the player wasn't told after the show. EG: Antonio solario with 72o trying to bluff quads. "Thanks that was really entertaining, here's the 75k you spewed back" it's their money they are playing with, they should be able to play with it how they want, that's why poker is a great game because of all the different styles.
Personally I think unless the media are putting up either money for players (IE: Sponsorship) or money towards the prizepool so they can advertise and get the word out they don't have any right to be there. They're there for free, don't pay for interviews with players for analysis/views and it's normally only players they sponsor or who are sponsored they'll ask for views so there's very little chance for the average joe to get his/her name out into the poker world without binking the tournament in which case your name will be out there anyway.
And now to completely go against everything I've said in this thread media wise, I would happily do anything for blonde as I massively respect the work Tighty does during deepstack events to keep everyone updated. This isn't sucking up it's just "where my loyalties lie" as it were.
Be careful what you wish for
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SuuPRlim
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #54 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:04:22 PM »
The problem lies with gambling companies (not just poker, but industry wide)
The way poker and gambling is marketed for the most part is really really bad, PKR for example I think are some of the biggest culprits, they ave a niche it that there software is unique, for casual inexperienced early punters PKR should be the go-to place, it's fun, quirky and has a bit of community feel to it, is this ever portrayed in the advertising?
No. It's just pictures of Jake/Vladimir/Scott etc all looking extremely serious and grumpy - it doesn't say "PKR, the most FUN place to play poker on the net" it says "come to PKR where these very serious sharks play and they will try take your money becuase they are the best"
Ladbrokes - they don't advertise for the new punters "Come have a bet with Ladbrokes, make saturday football more fun!" they say "Bill and Jenny from Warwick won £200,000 in a 3,000,000-1 shot come gamble maybe you'll do that too"
Pokerstars are the only company that really seem to "get-it" at all. Like Alun says all the emphasis is on "come do this you might win and look how good winning is" and less encouraging people to play poker or gamble for a recreation benefit...
THESE ARE GAMES PEOPLE.
GAMES
WHEN WILL PEOPLE REALISE THAT WE'RE ALL JUST PLAYING A GAME AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!
The whole world needs to take it less seriously.
It's not the players faults, it's the companies promoting it, if they made poker into a platform for FUN and ENTERTAINMENT instead of a very dull serious business affair I'm sure players would naturally become more entertaining.
I like and respect Tom Dwan, and I know high stakes poker only shows the biggest hands where he tanks for ages over lots of decisions and does that stupid chip placing thing (obv they not showing 95% of the pots) but that has been unbelievably BAD for poker, watching these guys with big headphones on replicating it is so fkn cringe.
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david3103
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #55 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM »
At the risk of sounding naive.
Did/do the pros in the game with The Loose Cannon actually play with their own money? Obviously the Full Tilt pros didn't in any of the televised games, but what about the others?
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SuuPRlim
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #56 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:14:11 PM »
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Did/do the pros in the game with The Loose Cannon actually play with their own money?
Yes they did. A lot would have sold action though. (I.e they are taking 2x $100k bullets, they'd sell 20% of the winnings for a max $40k liability)
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Obviously the Full Tilt pros didn't in any of the televised games, but what about the others?
I think they actually did for the most part, but by the sounds of it Ivey/Benyamine etc gave themselves a nice freeroll on a lot of them
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smashedagain
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #57 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:24:12 PM »
Tony G checks to Sam Trickett. Expert analysis is "a lot of the time Sam checks this flop and a lot of the time he bets it"
Good job Jesse is keeping me interested
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tight4better
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #58 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:30:01 PM »
Quote from: smashedagain on October 18, 2012, 12:24:12 PM
Tony G checks to Sam Trickett. Expert analysis is "a lot of the time Sam checks this flop and a lot of the time he bets it"
Good job Jesse is keeping me interested
Watch million dollar cash game seasons 4/5, awful.
It's hard to be a good analyst but I think Stapes and Kaplan do a great job
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Royal Flush
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #59 on:
October 18, 2012, 12:44:04 PM »
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Obviously the Full Tilt pros didn't in any of the televised games, but what about the others?
Not factually correct
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