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What's happened to Poker?
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Topic: What's happened to Poker? (Read 30492 times)
AlunB
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #75 on:
October 18, 2012, 03:23:46 PM »
I totally agree with Dubai and Mondeoman though that players shouldn't be obliged to be 'characters' or do interviews.
If EPTs or UKIPTs are not providing sufficient entertainment for TV then find a format that is. You can't depend on players to make it entertaining for you.
Credit to Stars they are doing just this with the super high rollers.
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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?
Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #76 on:
October 18, 2012, 03:30:03 PM »
Yo but who cares if casino betting is growing across the board? Only industry professionals. Almost every poker player wont care if the poker industry is down 4% or up 2%. All they care about is whether they can play in a good comp at the weekend, and they can. The current level of saturation is just fine for players. If we are asking players to buck up their ideas at the table and find a personality for the good of poker I think that's ambitious. I keep forgetting to take my bag for life to the shops for starters.
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AlunB
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #77 on:
October 18, 2012, 03:40:14 PM »
Quote from: MANTIS01 on October 18, 2012, 03:30:03 PM
Yo but who cares if casino betting is growing across the board? Only industry professionals. Almost every poker player wont care if the poker industry is down 4% or up 2%. All they care about is whether they can play in a good comp at the weekend, and they can. The current level of saturation is just fine for players. If we are asking players to buck up their ideas at the table and find a personality for the good of poker I think that's ambitious. I keep forgetting to take my bag for life to the shops for starters.
That's a fair point. But that's because people are still investing in poker. If it begins to decline then people will stop doing so. Most online companies already have stopped.
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Royal Flush
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Booooccccceeeeeee
Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #78 on:
October 18, 2012, 03:43:16 PM »
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 02:22:47 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 18, 2012, 12:44:04 PM
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Obviously the Full Tilt pros didn't in any of the televised games, but what about the others?
Not factually correct
In hindsight?
The vast majority of Tilt pro's paid their own buyins for the TV tournaments.
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skolsuper
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #79 on:
October 18, 2012, 03:56:50 PM »
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 18, 2012, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 02:22:47 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 18, 2012, 12:44:04 PM
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Obviously the Full Tilt pros didn't in any of the televised games, but what about the others?
Not factually correct
In hindsight?
The vast majority of Tilt pro's paid their own buyins for the TV tournaments.
Out of stolen money, I think is the point being made.
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david3103
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #80 on:
October 18, 2012, 04:04:55 PM »
Quote from: skolsuper on October 18, 2012, 03:56:50 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 18, 2012, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 02:22:47 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 18, 2012, 12:44:04 PM
Quote from: david3103 on October 18, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Obviously the Full Tilt pros didn't in any of the televised games, but what about the others?
Not factually correct
In hindsight?
The
vast majority
of Tilt pro's paid their own buyins for the TV tournaments.
Out of stolen money, I think is the point being made.
Indeed.
Oh, and vast majority?
tbf I had forgotten that Royal Flush was briefly a Full Tilt pro and wouldn't dream of suggesting he was anything other than an honest and upright citizen. Sincere apologies if such are needed.
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Honeybadger
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #81 on:
October 18, 2012, 04:49:09 PM »
I think there is a great deal of validity in what Mondeoman says. I also think there is a great deal of truth in what the article says.
My personal belief is that the 'rules' for tournament poker are rather different from cash game poker. Tournaments are the sporting version of poker. They
should
be played with high intensity and competitive spirit. And this should be celebrated. Not that I think ridiculous and unnecessary tanking over every decision is a good thing. Of course it isn't - it is ruining the game for everyone. But I have no problem at all with players in a tournament being highly intense and focusing purely on the game. The few times I enter tournaments I find it a big relief that I can just sit there in silence and try my best without having to worry about all the other stuff. That's what any sport is about... playing at the highest level that you possibly can. When you watch a football match you don't watch it for the amazing goal celebrations when someone scores or the personality of, and banter between, the players. You watch it for the sporting drama and the skillful play on show.
The problem is that - unlike most sports - well-played, high-intensity poker simply does not make for very good spectator viewing. I enjoy watching this sort of stuff, and I imagine most readers of blonde do too. But we are poker afficionados, we are naturally inclined to enjoy watching high level poker play for itself, even without cool characters and dancing monkeys. But for the average viewer who may or may not decide to take up poker, watching a superbly skilled young player making intricate moves through the streets in stony silence is not particularly appealing.
However, I don't believe there is too much we can do about this. That's just the way poker is... it is a niche game which is not especially accessible or exciting to the layman. Of course, using commentators who can bring the game to life without dumbing it down (and there are a few of them) makes a huge difference. Of course giving more air-time to those players who
are
interesting/cool/entertaining makes a difference too. And of course, selecting 'exciting' hands to put on air makes a difference. But all these things are the responsibility of the production company, not the players themselves. As Keith says, stumping up £5k for an EPT buy-in is a pretty big deal for most players, so they should be allowed to focus purely on giving their best performance. Just without all that unnecessary tanking.
The truth is that poker is just not a very good spectator sport for the layman. And trying to make it so is going to be pretty tough. I don't disagree with the article, and I think a lot of the wider points are valid. But I think tournament poker is a medium in which players should be able to 'just play poker' to a great extent. Obviously, I don't feel the same way about cash game poker...
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The Camel
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Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #82 on:
October 18, 2012, 04:50:52 PM »
+1 to everything Dubai said in this thread.
Add 10% to the prizepool and I'll jump through hoops wearing a mankini for the sponsor if they want me to. (Well, I won't but you get my drift)
Add zero and I'll keep myself to myself thankyou very much. As Mondeoman said, I'm a poker player not an entertainer.
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The Camel
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #83 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:07:16 PM »
Why has televised poker got to be dumbed down?
Why has everything always got to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
I would rather watch a well, run, politely played game with Haxton, Seiver, Mercier and Timoshenko than the egotists waving their metaphorical dicks.
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DaveShoelace
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #84 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:13:48 PM »
Quote from: The Camel on October 18, 2012, 05:07:16 PM
Why has televised poker got to be dumbed down?
Why has everything always got to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
I would rather watch a well, run, politely played game with Haxton, Seiver, Mercier and Timoshenko than the egotists waving their metaphorical dicks.
Because it is the only way it will appeal to a large audience, get airtime and advertisers. We would all love to watch a high quality polite game with six poker geniuses and world class analysis in the commentary booth, but we only make up a very small percentage of the TV poker audience, the viewing figures would be awful for such a show.
Don't forget also that dumbed down poker shows do bring new players to the game, not as much as in the glory days but it still does. I think if we want that to continue we have to be prepared to watched dumbed down poker, or just not watch poker on TV at all.
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Honeybadger
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #85 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote from: The Camel on October 18, 2012, 04:50:52 PM
+1 to everything Dubai said in this thread.
Add 10% to the prizepool and I'll jump through hoops wearing a mankini for the sponsor if they want me to. (Well, I won't but you get my drift)
Add zero and I'll keep myself to myself thankyou very much. As Mondeoman said, I'm a poker player not an entertainer.
Quote from: The Camel on October 18, 2012, 05:07:16 PM
Why has televised poker got to be dumbed down?
Why has everything always got to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
I would rather watch a well, run, politely played game with Haxton, Seiver, Mercier and Timoshenko than the egotists waving their metaphorical dicks.
I agree completely Keith. However, remember that you are a poker enthusiast with specialist knowledge. The average guy watching poker is not. I guess the trick is for the production companies to be competent enough to be able to present their poker content in a way that is both entertaining to the non-specialist
and
is not dumbed down. It's not like every poker show on telly has been either one or the other, there has been some great stuff aired over the years that would appeal to both types of viewer.
I don't think this is the responsibility of the players though. Their only responsibility in a tournament is to play their best. If they can be polite, friendly and welcoming to others on their table then this would be good too. But there should not be any onus on them to entertain potential TV viewers. This is the job of the production company. Of course, if the TV company are going to put money into the prize pool then all players would have a responsibility to 'entertain', since this would be part of the deal. But this is not currently the case.
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AlunB
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #86 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:20:43 PM »
Just to repeat as this has been said a few times before, but is worth repeating.
TV companies are PAID to make the shows. If anyone is going to put money in it would be the online sites funding the shows. But seeing as they are already paying millions to make a TV show they are obviously loath to do that.
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The Camel
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Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #87 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:38:46 PM »
The simple fact is, the well has pretty much run dry of new blood.
The boom has long since finished.
Chess doesn't need gimmicks to remain popular, why should our game?
Better to appeal to poker enthusiasts, than a non existent new audience.
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Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
AlunB
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Posts: 1712
Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #88 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:43:54 PM »
Quote from: The Camel on October 18, 2012, 05:38:46 PM
The simple fact is, the well has pretty much run dry of new blood.
The boom has long since finished.
Chess doesn't need gimmicks to remain popular, why should our game?
Better to appeal to poker enthusiasts, than a non existent new audience.
If you want poker to continue to keep you in the manner to which you have become accustomed into your dotage you better hope that doesn't happen.
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The Camel
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Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: What's happened to Poker?
«
Reply #89 on:
October 18, 2012, 05:47:45 PM »
Quote from: AlunB on October 18, 2012, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: The Camel on October 18, 2012, 05:38:46 PM
The simple fact is, the well has pretty much run dry of new blood.
The boom has long since finished.
Chess doesn't need gimmicks to remain popular, why should our game?
Better to appeal to poker enthusiasts, than a non existent new audience.
If you want poker to continue to keep you in the manner to which you have become accustomed into your dotage you better hope that doesn't happen.
It already has happened. The games are pretty much terrible (with a few exceptions) and there is no prospect of them getting better.
Poker just isn't in vogue any more.
Poker sites are far better off spending their marketing money trying to lure back former players back or encouraging infrequent players to play more often than attracting new ones to the game.
«
Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 05:49:57 PM by The Camel
»
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Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
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