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Author Topic: Weird spot in the Genting £150 Side Event  (Read 2262 times)
JGill_DTD
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« on: November 26, 2012, 02:33:07 PM »

Trying to remember this hand as accurately as possible.

Both about 40 big blinds deep at 1,200/2,400 (90k a piece). Early on in Day 2 of the GPS £150 Side Event, 25 left, 13 cash.

We open the button to 4,800 with    , Dominic Kay flats from the bb.

Flop -  

He checks, we bet 5k. He makes it 11k.

I 3bet to 25k. He 4bets to 42k.

Thoughts from here?
He flicked in it fairly quickly pre, ruling out sets. I know hes a good player and can be making this play with maybe or .
I also felt he could have a worse two pair. QJ was on my mind, I didn't feel like he had K10. Hard for me to justify why, but just didn't feel this way.
I felt like his quick call pre rules out   as I expect him to 3bet me in this spot, although still possible.

He knows I can play well, so thought this may put a few bluffs in his range, possibly not since he just 4bet me on a flop. I also thought he doesn't always 4bet with the nuts here if he thinks I'm just trying to outplay him in this spot.

Thoughts please?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 03:01:23 PM by JGill_DTD » Logged

Nico29
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 02:57:21 PM »

It's me in the hand with OP.

Post I doubt I made it as much as 50k for the 4bet, wlda been more like 42k but rest sounds about right.

And yeah think we both had like 90-100k stacks.

But pretty sure level was 1200-2400+200 antes, thus 40x deep.

Glad you've posted this hand mate.

Don't wanna spoil anything but personally think it's just a cold one.

Oh and average standard on table and comp on whole was pretty low, adds something to dynamic of hand somewhat.

Unlikely either of us will spew too much when such better spots are out there, although I normally find ways too!
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JGill_DTD
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 03:00:49 PM »

It's me in the hand with OP.

Post I doubt I made it as much as 50k for the 4bet, wlda been more like 42k but rest sounds about right.

And yeah think we both had like 90-100k stacks.

But pretty sure level was 1200-2400+200 antes, thus 40x deep.

Glad you've posted this hand mate.

Don't wanna spoil anything but personally think it's just a cold one.

Oh and average standard on table and comp on whole was pretty low, adds something to dynamic of hand somewhat.

Unlikely either of us will spew too much when such better spots are out there, although I normally find ways too!

ah hi! Thanks, edited OP

this hand has been tilting me in my mind, would just like a general consensus to see what I should be doing here and whether I just spewed or not.

Rough hand regardless
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Doobs
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 03:10:53 PM »

Trying to remember this hand as accurately as possible.

Both about 40 big blinds deep at 1,200/2,400 (90k a piece). Early on in Day 2 of the GPS £150 Side Event, 25 left, 13 cash.

We open the button to 4,800 with    , Dominic Kay flats from the bb.

Flop -  

He checks, we bet 5k. He makes it 11k.

I 3bet to 25k. He 4bets to 42k.

Thoughts from here?
He flicked in it fairly quickly pre, ruling out sets. I know hes a good player and can be making this play with maybe or .
I also felt he could have a worse two pair. QJ was on my mind, I didn't feel like he had K10. Hard for me to justify why, but just didn't feel this way.
I felt like his quick call pre rules out   as I expect him to 3bet me in this spot, although still possible.

He knows I can play well, so thought this may put a few bluffs in his range, possibly not since he just 4bet me on a flop. I also thought he doesn't always 4bet with the nuts here if he thinks I'm just trying to outplay him in this spot.

Thoughts please?


Even the stuff that isn't QJ or a set has very good equity vs us.  I don't think you can rule out suited aces including AsQs and AsJs.  I am really struggling to thinkl of a hand he plays this way that isn't better than 50/50 vs us and his range crushes us.  Puke fold the 4 bet. 

I am going all the way with a set.
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Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
pleno1
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 03:16:04 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
JGill_DTD
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 03:43:54 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

on the  turn, you flat again here? I suppose based on the turn it plays itself from here if I call. lower variance obv against a deece player, may keep bluffs in his range

And agreed that he probs has sick equity even if we do get it in ahead. I felt like 10-9 could be the one though
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youthnkzR
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 04:06:16 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

on the   turn, you flat again here? I suppose based on the turn it plays itself from here if I call. lower variance obv against a deece player, may keep bluffs in his range

And agreed that he probs has sick equity even if we do get it in ahead. I felt like 10-9 could be the one though

Dont ever think he has a bluff on the flop. Quite possibly a semi-bluff but this means if i call the raise on the flop and   hits the turn and he continues, im pretty sure im folding.

As it's been played i agree with doobs that we must sigh fold to 4bet, i dont ever think he has a combo here as fairly certain he just sticks it in our eye with the 4 bet rather then making it 42k, seems awfully like QJ / K10 type hand.
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sm00035
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 04:06:33 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

This. If you decide you want to 3b call flop, after he min 4bets you should fold anyway.

Fwiw I think that the min 4bet on the flop for half stack is beyond terrible
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Nico29
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 05:16:45 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

This. If you decide you want to 3b call flop, after he min 4bets you should fold anyway.

Fwiw I think that the min 4bet on the flop for half stack is beyond terrible

Cheers Sam, as usual we agree on hands.

Least it's not over 5 beers droning over it again and again like we did b4.

Reasoning perhaps for bolded?

I agree about calling the flop in this spot but don't know why we want to 3bet bluff here?

Any euros about matey? Smiley
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pleno1
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 06:05:39 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

This. If you decide you want to 3b call flop, after he min 4bets you should fold anyway.

Fwiw I think that the min 4bet on the flop for half stack is beyond terrible

Cheers Sam, as usual we agree on hands.

Least it's not over 5 beers droning over it again and again like we did b4.

Reasoning perhaps for bolded?

I agree about calling the flop in this spot but don't know why we want to 3bet bluff here?

Any euros about matey? Smiley

Because ou have a zero bluffing range and our rage to 4b the flop is ridic strong and there is no room to induce. You're bet bluffing... If you have a stron hand you probably induce hero folds rather than calls.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
Nico29
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 06:20:19 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

This. If you decide you want to 3b call flop, after he min 4bets you should fold anyway.

Fwiw I think that the min 4bet on the flop for half stack is beyond terrible

Cheers Sam, as usual we agree on hands.

Least it's not over 5 beers droning over it again and again like we did b4.

Reasoning perhaps for bolded?

I agree about calling the flop in this spot but don't know why we want to 3bet bluff here?

Any euros about matey? Smiley

Because ou have a zero bluffing range and our rage to 4b the flop is ridic strong and there is no room to induce. You're bet bluffing... If you have a stron hand you probably induce hero folds rather than calls.

Not sure exactly which points you are answering and the ol iphone typos are confusing me, our range or your range?

Anyway, I may not be bluffing 72o but i'm shredding your equity versus my draws which surely you should not just bluff away on wet boards?

Disagree totally that making it 42k from like 100 V lots of live players can't induce, maybe it shouldn't against someone competent like JGill but against a huge percentage it will.

If I believe I'm heads up in this situation versus a thinking player I will balance my 4bet clicks with draws and nuts here.
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Pugwashed
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2012, 04:04:12 PM »

5k to 11k feels v v weird, id just cal flop.

This. If you decide you want to 3b call flop, after he min 4bets you should fold anyway.

Fwiw I think that the min 4bet on the flop for half stack is beyond terrible

Cheers Sam, as usual we agree on hands.

Least it's not over 5 beers droning over it again and again like we did b4.

Reasoning perhaps for bolded?

I agree about calling the flop in this spot but don't know why we want to 3bet bluff here?

Any euros about matey? Smiley

Because ou have a zero bluffing range and our rage to 4b the flop is ridic strong and there is no room to induce. You're bet bluffing... If you have a stron hand you probably induce hero folds rather than calls.

Not sure exactly which points you are answering and the ol iphone typos are confusing me, our range or your range?

Anyway, I may not be bluffing 72o but i'm shredding your equity versus my draws which surely you should not just bluff away on wet boards?

Disagree totally that making it 42k from like 100 V lots of live players can't induce, maybe it shouldn't against someone competent like JGill but against a huge percentage it will.

If I believe I'm heads up in this situation versus a thinking player I will balance my 4bet clicks with draws and nuts here.

What does "shredding your equity vs my draws" mean?

Assuming you have no 4bet/fold range on this flop then you're better off just jamming as anyone semi competent will know they never have any fold equity and isn't just spazzing and 5b shoving some random gutshots and vs live recs you look way stronger making it 42k than just jamming. If you're gonna use balance as an argument for making it 42k then you need to have some sort of 4b/fold range to make small 4b better than 4b jam
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The Squid
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 11:03:24 AM »

Three betting flop here is beyond terrible as he gets in very, very little that's worse except AQss or AJss. Just call flop then call the four of spades on the turn.
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JGill_DTD
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2012, 10:48:18 AM »

Three betting flop here is beyond terrible as he gets in very, very little that's worse except AQss or AJss. Just call flop then call the four of spades on the turn.

I felt like there were a fair few cards that we don't like to see on the turn.
If I flat it kept bluffs in his range and didn't want to just be like call, call, sigh stationing him off as I felt like I would have to based on what little info I have on him.
Saying that based on this turn I have to, then probably get stacks when I boat up on the river.

tyty for all advice Smiley Apparently it was a spew then  Cry
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 10:50:17 AM by JGill_DTD » Logged

action man
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 03:54:23 AM »

knowing both hands im not a fan of how either of you played the hand. The flop 3 bet as squid said is vbad in this situation vs this opponent imo
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