Markup??

[Amatay]

wtf colour is that CF. ridic horrible

this and why do you do it? Just to tilt people? lol

Seems toolish

[smashedagain]

be cool if someone who cba, was to work out the total ROI of the whole live staking board

you only sing when you're winning
You only sing when your winning
Sing when you're winning

[skolsuper]

be cool if someone who cba, was to work out the total ROI of the whole live staking board

you only sing when you're winning
You only sing when your winning
Sing when you're winning

Lol herbie, 

I've thought about doing this Trigg, half out of curiosity and half as a nice little ego boost. Not sure if I would share the results though, knowledge is power etc

[T8MML]

A genuine question from an old fart who has never sold or bought at mark up.

"how do you arrive at the figure you are prepared to pay or charge?"

Are you results driven? I've seen players selling themselves at 1.2-1.3 who I wouldn't say are any value at premium - (of course all blonde members are ) but some seem to have a higher opinion of their game than the results suggest.

Then I see really good consistent players at the same "price" - hard to understand to me.

Do you evaluate somebody by their style of play, ie. out early or massive chipstack or do you go for somebody like yours truely who will "allegedly" sits there all day waiting for aces but may have a high cash to entry ratio ?

Somebody has great online scores but hasn't as yet delivered live. How do you arrive at a price?

I like the idea of auctions, demand deciding price.

Just interested to hear from those that do



Btw I'm selling......

[jgcblack]

A genuine question from an old fart who has never sold or bought at mark up.

"how do you arrive at the figure you are prepared to pay or charge?"

Are you results driven? I've seen players selling themselves at 1.2-1.3 who I wouldn't say are any value at premium - (of course all blonde members are ) but some seem to have a higher opinion of their game than the results suggest.

Then I see really good consistent players at the same "price" - hard to understand to me.

Do you evaluate somebody by their style of play, ie. out early or massive chipstack or do you go for somebody like yours truely who will "allegedly" sits there all day waiting for aces but may have a high cash to entry ratio ?

Somebody has great online scores but hasn't as yet delivered live. How do you arrive at a price?

I like the idea of auctions, demand deciding price.

Just interested to hear from those that do



Btw I'm selling......

This is exactly the point of the thread, sir.

congrats on your advent entry!


@Keys - I understand youre in charge of the staking board (or a mod of some kind)
Can you help here?

[cambridgealex]

I don't use a precise formula but basically if im selling for a live tournament it's gonna be between 1.2 and 1.5 in most cases and where in that region depends mainly on my (or others') opinion of the field strength and then on forecasted field size.

[fizix87]

There is no 'magic bullet' for determining markup, any staking board be it blonde, 2+2, wherever, is controlled by the features of the market itself - by supply and demand.

On blonde for example, there is a relatively low volume of staking requests, this tends to mean that higher markups are possible due to this clear discrepancy between supply and demand, coupled with the stronger community feel here which means that often the people buying and selling action will know each other personally and therefore not view the transaction purely from the perspective of whether it truly represents 'value'.

A couple of years ago on 2p2 the big Russian staking funds were buying virtually all the big live tournament action with a seeming lack of discretion, this meant that markups were high across the board. After this influx of money declined, the markups have now settled back down to a lower level as buyers are generally more selective, is either more reflective of the 'true' position? I would argue that both simply reflected sellers understanding the conditions of the market at the time, and setting markups accordingly.

When we set markups, what are we trying to achieve? A fair deal for investors? A good deal for ourselves? Both? - I have always taken the view that the markups I set should represent value for both myself and investors, but other people quite clearly take the view that they should charge as high a markup as people will be willing to pay, I do not think you can say that either approach is 'right' or 'wrong'. In the end the market will decide whether your markup is 'fair' or not, in that you will either sell your action or you wont.

    

[jgcblack]

Ok let me make this a little more basic...

Can people put their opinion of what would be reasonable for the following markups?


1.0-1.2  = ?

1.2-1.4  = ?

1.4-1.6  = ?

1.8+  = ?

And how should this change, adjust, move between types of mtt - £100fo/ £dtd500/ £GUKPT/ EPT/ WSOP ME???

I've noticed a lot of players put it to 'round numbers' to make life easy.. so instead of 1.1 its 1.134 or similar...

Sorry to seem like an idiot here, but I just can't get my head around the 'finger in air' guesswork....

[kinboshi]

Can people put their opinion of what would be reasonable for the following markups?

What do you mean?

[nirvana]

JB, just ask Tommy Langley (I'm guessing he's someone who has observed you play live a fair bit and he has a deep understanding of the game) what he thinks you're worth in, say a DTD 300 Deepstack and a UKIPT.

That's about the right answer and then you can add a bit for whatever goodwill you might get from different target buyers. It's not something to wrangle with in a faux scientific or mathematical way as you won't get any answer above 1.0, mathematically speaking.

[jgcblack]

JB, just ask Tommy Langley (I'm guessing he's someone who has observed you play live a fair bit and he has a deep understanding of the game) what he thinks you're worth in, say a DTD 300 Deepstack and a UKIPT.

That's about the right answer and then you can add a bit for whatever goodwill you might get from different target buyers. It's not something to wrangle with in a faux scientific or mathematical way as you won't get any answer above 1.0, mathematically speaking.

I know what I think I'm worth... and ofc Tom is one of the people I'm close to in poker and would definitely ask his opinion... also because he's taken action in the past and he's on the 'list' of first choicers.

But also, trying to 'prove' my opinion vs what people think of me, or what people (and most of the time more 'qualified' people) suggest to me is a tough one.

I know a very good mtt player who I think would be value at 1.4-1.5 in the UKIPT Cork I'm considering said to me he'd put it up at 1.15-1.2 at most, because xxxx are putting theirs at 1.25 and he doesn't think he's better than them.  This thinking just seems strange in some ways.

It really isn't me wanting to stretch the most out of my tiny corner of the market, its more me trying to understand how to go about a 'business transaction' in a world I know so little about.

I would like to considering playing some big events this year (to me £500+ is - big) and as I'm not currently rolled for this but I'm having a lot of work abroad then I have to take the few small shots I can get and selling to play 'higher' seems the best option.

Thanks for all the comments and advice so far, hopefully more are to follow..

for now I'm just going for a live cash session lets get some more $$ for Cork!

[Honeybadger]

I don't think I'd ever buy action in anyone at more than 1.3. And in fact I would only stretch to 1.3 with a very good reason. (I mean within reason obviously... if Ivey offered me some of his action in the WSOP ME at 1.5 and promised me he would genuinely be trying his best then I would obviously snap it up.)

I personally think it is a piss take that (almost) anyone would ever try to sell action at 1.6 or more. Regardless of how 'soft the field is'. Others will likely disagree, but that's my opinion.

In all honesty JB... if you are selling action in a live tournament it should be at no mark up (at least for the first few times). You might well be able to sell with mark up due to people following your diary wanting to have a goodwill 'fun punt' on you... but this does not mean you should sell at mark up for the first few times.

[celtic]

I don't think I'd ever buy action in anyone at more than 1.3. And in fact I would only stretch to 1.3 with a very good reason. (I mean within reason obviously... if Ivey offered me some of his action in the WSOP ME at 1.5 and promised me he would genuinely be trying his best then I would obviously snap it up.)

I personally think it is a piss take that (almost) anyone would ever try to sell action at 1.6 or more. Regardless of how 'soft the field is'. Others will likely disagree, but that's my opinion.

In all honesty JB... if you are selling action in a live tournament it should be at no mark up (at least for the first few times). You might well be able to sell with mark up due to people following your diary wanting to have a goodwill 'fun punt' on you... but this does not mean you should sell at mark up for the first few times.

Very much this.

[pleno1]

Yeah ofc it's right.

[titaniumbean]

I don't get it. So many people think 'the market can set itself' even though the bulk of the buyers may have no awareness of true variance/roi etc.


so why 'should' he set it at no markup IF people will buy at 1.2 or w/e.



I fwiw am massively on the side that people overcharge and provide little value very often and rather just pass on their variance and a potentially -Ev proposition. I'm trying to see why he shouldn't mark it up given it will sell.


is it ethical or for some actual strategic reason.


what markup would people pay for rastafish at the next dtd 300 ? and at what point is it just a breakeven stake?