live 2/2 omaha spot

[jk1892]

Playing 8 handed and everyone is sat with at least £500, straddles are £5

Dealer chooses 4 cards the only player that does this everyone else tends to have max

I'm the small blind playing 1.1k

HAND:  

Straddle to 5, utg raises to 15, 1 caller behind, I call the sb, bb folds and the straddle comes along.

FLOP:  

I check
Straddle bets out £40
Initial raiser folds and the caller pots it to approximately £200

Thoughts?

Straddle is a very competent reg, probably the best player at the table and playing £600ish. The potter im told is decent and seems to know how to play, he has been the tightest player at the table and has span £300 into £1000 he has only shown down aces full and the nut straight before. Im a relatively unkown but have been holding my own playing fairly tight.

[mulhuzz]

blergh spot.

I can find arguments for all options. except call, I'm definitely not calling.

[bobAlike]

I would call here and shove the turn on a non pair up or flush completing turn. That is unless you want to play a high variance game where you just punt it all in now and hope to hold.

[Patonius2000]

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

[mulhuzz]

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

problem is that guy can have A7ss56 and have us almost dead, with our read that he's been tight. pot/call my standard line here, but wondering if there's something interesting about making it £430 and calling off....since a pot is all in anyway, maybe we can induce slightly weaker shoves and if it goes shove/shove behind us we can consider a hero fold....

[ x ] thread needs Lil Dave.

[Doobs]

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

problem is that guy can have A7ss56 and have us almost dead, with our read that he's been tight. pot/call my standard line here, but wondering if there's something interesting about making it £430 and calling off....since a pot is all in anyway, maybe we can induce slightly weaker shoves and if it goes shove/shove behind us we can consider a hero fold....

[ x ] thread needs less nits

FYP

[mulhuzz]

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

problem is that guy can have A7ss56 and have us almost dead, with our read that he's been tight. pot/call my standard line here, but wondering if there's something interesting about making it £430 and calling off....since a pot is all in anyway, maybe we can induce slightly weaker shoves and if it goes shove/shove behind us we can consider a hero fold....

[ x ] thread needs fewer nits

FYP

lololol v good. but for the record, I refixed it. It should be fewer nits, not less, since we can count them

I'm not a nit *at all* when it comes to PLO and my default line is most definitely pot-callllllllll in this spot.

just wondering if there is something about the raisers tightness and whether that gives us enough of a reason to deviate from standard line. I suspect it won't, but I think we achieve the same result from raise-call rather than pot-call because we can give the illusion of fold equity against potter but also squeeze the straddler out of the pot cold. It's clear we want to pot headsup because everytime it goes three ways we're gonna have to find some pretty specific turns and rivers to win the pot, if we can win the whole pot at all!

I think I like the idea of making it £430 or so and calling off, but I'm also completely at peace with just pot/call as well.

[Doobs]

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

problem is that guy can have A7ss56 and have us almost dead, with our read that he's been tight. pot/call my standard line here, but wondering if there's something interesting about making it £430 and calling off....since a pot is all in anyway, maybe we can induce slightly weaker shoves and if it goes shove/shove behind us we can consider a hero fold....

[ x ] thread needs fewer nits

FYP

lololol v good. but for the record, I refixed it. It should be fewer nits, not less, since we can count them

I'm not a nit *at all* when it comes to PLO and my default line is most definitely pot-callllllllll in this spot.

just wondering if there is something about the raisers tightness and whether that gives us enough of a reason to deviate from standard line. I suspect it won't, but I think we achieve the same result from raise-call rather than pot-call because we can give the illusion of fold equity against potter but also squeeze the straddler out of the pot cold. It's clear we want to pot headsup because everytime it goes three ways we're gonna have to find some pretty specific turns and rivers to win the pot, if we can win the whole pot at all!

I think I like the idea of making it £430 or so and calling off, but I'm also completely at peace with just pot/call as well.

Thread needs less pedants.

While this could be just ice cold, OP is more likely to be handing out the fifty pences.  Don't know if I like your raise size, just looks very nutted.

[jk1892]

Is there no merit for a fold here? The donk bet usually reads 56 also, and the guy who's potted is never light here. IMO at worst he has a bare 567 and i dont think hes ever folding. Does everyone really want to get in 1k here in the hope he has no redraws? My flush isn't great either so really just hoping to spike a blank 5 or 6 which there may not be many left if the straddle has it as well.

[gouty]

Fold ain't that bad here and well worth considering.

[gouty]

Lets have a vote on Lil Daves line here. I go for fold. Anyone else? Before he gets up.

[Patonius2000]

Folding is a disaster play. Pot/call and be pretty happy about it. You can call if its ur case monies but i dont really like pricing in the straddle and our redraw is def strong enough to get it in vs the other guy. Ice cold if he has us crushed imo

problem is that guy can have A7ss56 and have us almost dead, with our read that he's been tight. pot/call my standard line here, but wondering if there's something interesting about making it £430 and calling off....since a pot is all in anyway, maybe we can induce slightly weaker shoves and if it goes shove/shove behind us we can consider a hero fold....

[ x ] thread needs Lil Dave.

I did consider this when I made my post and then I remembered the times I've burnt money putting a guy on one hand with a read as vague as "he's tight". Sure if he opens his mouth and starts complaining that he's worried about the potential flush and that he has to raise to "get people out" then I would go ahead and fold. Without that information though I'd open his range up to around 750 combinations of which are the folllowing;

 Board:
    
 
 Equity Wins Ties  
 MP2: Preflop   51.70%   42.65%   9.04%   746  { 56BsBs, AAs5s6, 44As*, 5678, 5567 }
 Flop   45.69%   27.90%   17.80%    
 Turn   45.69%   27.90%   17.80%    
 River   45.69%   27.90%   17.80%    
 MP3: Preflop   48.30%   39.26%   9.04%   1  { 5h6s7s8s }
 Flop   54.31%   36.51%   17.80%    
 Turn   54.31%   36.51%   17.80%    
 River   54.31%   36.51%   17.80%

That doesn't include any weaker combinations of 56, which he can have a none zero % of the time for sure. He can raise fold these vs our pot sized raise or get it in freerolled both of which result in us printing money. It's also very light on set combos as I don't assume the average tight 2/2 player will get frisky with set+fd here (although it would massively correct for him to do so based on the general thoughts itt). So assuming this range we get it in with 48% with a decent overlay which doesn't seem bad. But then lets take the general population read of this thread - which shows that a person assumed to be "tight" can be as narrow as 108 combos here (56+bigfd). What does that say about our range then? Well if the villain has a similar perception of this hand, then he will put us on an extremely tight range when we pot here - perhaps (if I'm led to believe people can actually narrow someone down to 12 combos in a spot like this) AAs5s6. When faced with a pot sized raise villain will make a great deal of incorrectly tight hero folds if he perceives our range to be this.

And raising small sucks a fat one because we want folds. Equity runs close in PLO even when you think it doesn't.

[SuuPRlim]

Lets have a vote on Lil Daves line here. I go for fold. Anyone else? Before he gets up.

I'm UP!

Rob has sewn it up pretty much perfectly for me, sure we might run into the absolute bojangles here and be under it, but I agree with rob he does have some weaker 56+ re-draw combo's than ours and will have naked 56 some % of time, as well as sets+ NFD (AA44ss etc) speshly with the dynamic of the more aggressive straddler donking. I agree this isn't ALL that likely and the vast majority of the time these hands would just be a call with this player, but it is certainly not an insignificantly low frequency so should be considered.

Let's not forget there is also the possibility he's going off with something like AA55 with spades - I realise this is a tight player but you said he was a competant player so prolly understands his image and just look at the hand people are suggesting we might wanna fold here? It's again unlikely but certainly not completely impossible and would defo be a very good play, actually would be the best way to play that hand.

Also consider this player PF range is going to be pretty tight,  or some such hand is possible but there aren't many combo's of that sort of mega-nutted hand when you remember it would prolly have to be dbl suited and the which is defo slightly relevant. So, in reality 56 with a bigger flush draw is as crushed as I think we'll be, if somehow we've run into the super hand then I think that's very very cold.

Agree with Rob r.e betsizing as well, sure it'd be nice to maneuver our betsizing as such that weaker hands might find themselves all in, but its plainly obvious that once we've entered this pot with a raise we're not folding EVER and we just have an extremely strong range (we'd have folded totally naked 56 prolly, and 33) so the best way we can manipulate our betsizes here is too put as much money in as possible and try get a 56 combo to fold, as we absolutely print thee equity when someone folds (albeit likely correctly) 56 to us OTF.

Raising certainly better than calling OTF because we have our equity now, we have the most fold equity.

This is just one of those silly PLO spots where folding could be a huge mistake, whereas going all in can never be - so the only way to make sure we dont fuck up is to get the money in.

[bobAlike]

LilD, if by chance the villain has got a better hand than us then surely getting the money in now will only mean we chop at best and lose more often. If we call now and shove any non flush or paired turn surely we have more chance of getting a fold from villain if he's holding trips or flush draw. Obv I bow to your superiority here but without significant reads I play it safe here.

[Oxford_HRV]

if villain is as good as you make out he has atleast  and always have a sweet redraw so you will be drawing thinaments. fold this hand. gift £15 and feel happy about being a hero and probs just fold pre next time. playing live plo OOP with mediocre hands is like playing rouly with double zero!! why make the game harder than it already is!