OMG Online Poker is rigged!

[Longy]

Sausage please never have children

Now there is something that is definitely rigged.

[Sulphur man]

but why was it gash? I was glad when it moved to ipoker cause I thought boss was more rigged.

On a scale of 1/10, how would you estimate the degree of riggedness for each site?

Possibly the best question yet on this Forum. 

[theprawnidentity]

With 1 on the scale been as honest as a Gary Lineker tackle and 10 been as rigged as a Zimbawean election.....

[SuuPRlim]

I take it you do it for living then SuuPRlim? ( how on earth did you come up with that name? lol ) do you know what I mean about each site having its own feeling with them card patterns? You think you could tell which site you was on if playing a blank skin? or am I experiencing one of them curious observations Tikay is on about lol nasty outdraws just seem to happen much more on the net even though you're playing many more hands.

Yes, I do. In regards to the question of if I played on all the sites blankly would i be able to identify which site is which based on the pattern of the cards coming out, then I think I would absolutely not be able to do that, in all the many hands on online poker I've played I've never really noticed anything that you've mentioned so far.

I do prefer certain sites to others, but mostly down to the software and the playing style of the games, I even am susceptible to silly things like I truly believe I am luckier on Party than I am on betfair - I've even said to my flatmate before "I'd fold here on ipoker but I run too good on party" lol, obviously theoretically it's total nonsense but we're all human!

I cant even TELL you about the amount of horrible outdraws I've seen online, so so so many, but you know I'd honestly say that I've seen a higher ratio of terrible beats>hands played live than online - thing is if you don't get your money in dead then you ALWAYS have a chance don't you, if I get it in with 5% chance of winning then 1/20 times I'm gonna fuck you - when you play 125 hands p/hour p/table it's not actually that improbable for it to happen reasonably often is it? Thing is though these hands stick out in your head cos they really sting, the 19 times you previously won when you had 95% will fade into insignificance pretty quickly.

every single day I see people type "fkn rigged site never playing here again" into chat and they pretty much never get given miracles - most of the time they are tilting and end up dusting there money off - i've heard this argument time and time again, sites are rigging it so people don't lose too quick so they play more, but in reality people have been playing (and losing) at poker for years and years, and never really need encouraging to play, how does live poker manage to keep people playing if they can't rig the hands?

Also - suggesting that DTD are rigging satelites to prevent doing their money on overlays would require THE WHOLE ipoker network to be rigged, WH/PaddyPower/BB/B365/Encore/DTD all play off the same network, with the same players and same RNG, so DTD would need playtech (owners of the ipoker software) to allow them to rig it, so that DTD would save money on gte's - even someone as skeptical as you must see that that specifically is completely non-viable.

The point about sites being up to shady things, though, is totally true, a while back it came out that ipoker had put "bots" into cash games to start games, these bots would play a theoretically optimal style of poker and there purpose being to run more games, generate more rake and skim a little bit of money out of the games as well - this is obviously illegal and totallly OOL, cheating, if you were. UB had the "potripper" scandal where they created a few "super-user" accounts which could see everyone's whole cards - Phralard Friedman famously got scammed for $1m by one of these accounts heads up. There has also been countless accounts of hacking into peoples screens so they can see their hole-cards, the incident where someone broke into Brain Townsends house and installed a small webcam above his PC so could see his screen and took him for 750k HU, and ofc the team at FTP all played high stakes craps and bought malibu beach houses with out player monies for years. Shadiness/cheating 100% does and has gone on in internet poker, no-one can dispute this but in all the years and all the scams the one thing that has never happened is the actual cards that come out have been rigged. If it was worth doing, someone would have done it by now.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion Sausage but I really wouldn't waste your time on the Sausage statistic, because even if you came back with the most damning set of data, no-one would believe you lol

As for my name, I used to live in Cyprus and have friends in lived/grew up in a tiny farming village in the south, they used to say the word "soop-rar-leem" which to them meant "supreme wealth" but not money, as in you had a good life and people who loved you, so you were, supremely wealthy.

However Greekstien, who is greek himself, despite looking jewish and living in thailand has told me often that such a word really doesn't exist, and isn't even a development of other similar words in greek or cypriot, so given that I was drunk, high and sunburnt for the majority of my time in cyprus there is every chance I mis-heard/remembered it wrong/made it up, but it's my blonde name and my stars username so I'm stuck with it, and given that i'm the only person I know who's been to that cypriot village you'll just have to believe me

[MANTIS01]

I always seem to lose on Wednesdays. While I agree that online poker isn't generally rigged I think it probably is on Wednesdays.

[SuuPRlim]

I always seem to lose on Wednesdays. While I agree that online poker isn't generally rigged I think it probably is on Wednesdays.

sunday's for me. cheating pricks.

[Gemini Kings]

loved the bad beat video above. I wonder if the guy's still playing on Stars.

There was no bigger sceptic of online poker than me. 3 years ago I was convinced it was rigged.

So in November 2010 I waved goodbye to online poker and began playing live MTT's in the medium buy in range. £150 to £1k events.

I have now played over 200 including some £50 one nighters at my local G casino.

On line I saw bad beats over and over just like the video above. Relentless. But I have to admit that I have had my worst bad beats in live Mtt's and at critical times, deep, when the outcome had just as critical consequence as anything online. Actually more critical because the live tournaments had larger prize pools.

My point is that over the last couple of years I have been forced to re assess my opinions of online poker or at least the evidence upon which I was basing my supicions and distrust.

Is it Rigged? Maybe it is maybe it isn't. But playing live is the best way to give balance to your suspicions.

Those bad beats are there waiting for us in every real deck of cards on every table in every casino and card room. It's a cliche been said millions of times before, but its poker. If a particular outcome is possible it will happen at some stage.

I played on DTD poker site on the Boss software. I didn't like the software but I had no suspicions that this site was rigged. I won a couple of satellites and lost a few. Nothing untoward.

I cannot and never have been able to win on Stars. Like the poor sod in the video my big hands just never hold up on that site.

I would say that when people are suspicious about certain sites integrity I doubt they are being malicious or delusional. They are forming their opinions based on their experience and knowledge of the game (whatever level they are at) so it is not helpful to ridicule them.

Replies need to be constructive as indeed some are on here such as TK and SuuPRlim and others. That said responses here are far more constructive than 2plus2 where industry insiders are waiting to lambast anyone who dares to question the integrity of online poker.

Where there is money there is greed and dishonesty lurking in the shadows. That is true across all industries. That does not mean every company is dishonest but we would be naive to believe there is no dishonesty in online poker. The question is to what extent and how deep does it run. As SuuPRlim pointed out above there have been several cases of dishonesty already uncovered. The fact that nothing has been proven in relation to the deal does not guarantee that all sites and all online deals are honest.

But I do now know that, as frustrating and incredibly annoying as it is to get deep in an online MTT or satellite only to get your AA KK or dominating hand busted, it happens in live games as well only too often and when you are running bad it can be just as brutal live as it is online. One example. Las Vegas two years ago. Had AK 32  times lost 30 times (missed the board 31 times) Had that run been online it would have been tempting to suspect that I was been set up. But it was live.

I will be surprised if we do not see more cases of dishonesty come light to over the coming years. But I would be very surprised if they were to involve DTD in anyway. Rob seems to love the game too much to discredit it and he has shown by enduring huge overlays on some of his comps that he is not in it just to make money at any cost. If he were then he would not have honoured the overlays, he would be more aloof and would not care about what the players think. Anyone can see that is not the case.

One thing is for sure. As long as there is online Poker this debate will continue.

[PeeJay]

I think the reason you get a lot of joke replies on these threads is because it just seems like a massive level. It just doesn't seem believable that people can think like this. If people are actually on this level then the reason they get joke replys is probably because its good for the online grinder to have people playing on their site thinking like this and educating them can only be bad or them in the long term.

[smurf]

one thing I have always wondered about with online poker...all these programs that you can get that tells you information on your opponents which I believe works on all the large sites - if they only work by collecting information on the players ID why do no poker sites allow you to regularly change your username and therefore keeping a more level playing field for those without it.

[Sausage]

Once again thanks for taking the time out to explain things and help me out, much appreciated
 
It must be me and one of them curious observations Tikay was saying about. I hate pokerstars, it feels like you see twice as many aces on there for some reason. I
 
I feel I've seen many many more online. When you see hands like this every few hours

Click to see full-size image.

you can't help question this so called RNG. It's hands like that I think they want them sng's over as quick as possible. I have only played a fraction of your hands so maybe it will even it self out over time. I fully understand maths you've explained but I just feel like the small % outdraws massively outnumber the small % of hands won in the reverse situation. But like you say it could stick in my head more this is why I'm going to take notes and record hands just out of interest and maybe it will help me, screenshots and snips only take a few seconds and it won't be long before its 1000's of hands.

It just seemed really odd both times I'd won a seat. I've often thought they can just set an account on win mode to keep that players hopes up. With technology and software these days, that's very plausible. I shut my I poker account last week but had less than £2 on it. After requesting it to be shut I tested it a few time to see if I could still log on which it did so I thought I'd get rid of the tiny amount of money on there buy jumping on a micro stakes table. I found it hilarious that I couldn't loose a bloody hand and within 1.5 hours The money had increased by 1000% Again could just be coincidence but it made me even more skeptical. I think people will always play live poker as a social thing and a hobby, I get buzz when I can go and play live and clock watch like an excited kid. ( these posts are like being back at school with an essay lol)
 
It was a little more than just non-viable, it was down right stupid if truth be told. It just got me thinking when the sats went from 1R to 1R+ 1A. In a way I'm really glad this thread started as I've learned a lot, but wasn't really worth my rant as Im now probably banned from DTD. Surprised nobody quoted me and put this pic lol >> http://www.carra-lucia-books.co.uk/images/articles/209.jpg

I didn't know there was an actual case of I poker being found to use bots. Was there any court case with this? That shows these sites are willing to stoop very low, break the law and basically rob their customers That makes me think the idea of putting an account on win mode is even more realistic. None of them cases surprise me as large amounts of money is always followed by thieves They don't have to be rigged that much, a simple and small change in the % of higher cards given out in starting hands could massively change the speed a sng is over and rake in pots. Like in the eg hand above.. With software it would be very simple to do and willingness of sites to be shady makes it very plausible. This is why I'm going to have a look at the % of premium hands I get dealt out of interest.

Well you seem like a genuine, helpful and patient person to me and I wouldn't trust any man that lived in Thailand so the description suits you well A dude my dad used to work with was a Greek Cypriot, his first name and surname were the same lol dervish dervish he was called.

[Sausage]

Only ever read 3 books sulphurman, this being one of them.  Ive logged in a few times and the screen has just been a pic of that book so I think someone on the admin team is suggesting the same thing lol It's not the bad beats, mate. It's the thought of it being unfair thats the annoying thing.

[GreekStein]

Well you seem like a genuine, helpful and patient person

Genuine, definitely.

Helpful to my friends and good people.

Patient, erm, not always.

I wouldn't trust any man that lived in Thailand so the description suits you well

Showing your true colours here Mr Bigot.

A dude my dad used to work with was a Greek Cypriot, his first name and surname were the same lol dervish dervish he was called.

I don't know your dad or the guy he used to work with but I DO know you're pretty stupid because Mr Dervish Dervish was Turkish Cypriot.



The last two statements kinda show why you not only lose at poker, but think it's rigged. Some people just lack intelligence. I wish you good luck and don't hold your stupidity against you.

[celtic]

Well you seem like a genuine, helpful and patient person

Genuine, definitely.

Helpful to my friends and good people.

Patient, erm, not always.

I wouldn't trust any man that lived in Thailand so the description suits you well

Showing your true colours here Mr Bigot.

A dude my dad used to work with was a Greek Cypriot, his first name and surname were the same lol dervish dervish he was called.

I don't know your dad or the guy he used to work with but I DO know you're pretty stupid because Mr Dervish Dervish was Turkish Cypriot.



The last two statements kinda show why you not only lose at poker, but think it's rigged. Some people just lack intelligence. I wish you good luck and don't hold your stupidity against you.

Dump your burd, and come back and marry me costa costa x

[SuuPRlim]

if the title of the thread had been "People who run online poker networks could be shady" thn no-one could argue with you, and you're right, when big money like online poker is about shady business practice, fraudulent activity and scummy characters will never be too far away, no-one cold argue with you there. In balance though I know 3 people who are in charge of online poker sites, all good friends and all behave and conduct their business with 100% honor and integrity, so let's not assume everyone who runs a big business is a scumbag. (admittedly none of those 3 have any influence over the ACTUAL software)

However that's not what you're saying, you're saying that the poker sites actually CHANGE the cards the players get/that come out on the board in a bid to i) make the games faster so people play more and generate more rake, ii) So that satelite seats go to different people in a bid to reduce overlays, iii) to make certain players win so they continue to play+generate more rake. You're talking of "win-modes" for certain accounts with no real idea of what that means, and the delayed river card whilst they find the "right card" even though that would surely slow the games down?

Basically Sausage as we've all said a million times, your opinions are valid and you're entitled to them, but you nor anyone else has ever come up with a shred of decent evidence or circumstantial proof that it's rigged in this way, and thousands of people have said this, if you look on 2+2 forums some clever people+ players have been able to identify really complex cheating scandals just by analysing hand historys, without even mentioning the ludicrously high standards of market regulating it really does just seem unbelievably in-plausible that it's rigged in the mannor you think.

[Amatay]

Well you seem like a genuine, helpful and patient person

Genuine, definitely.

Helpful to my friends and good people.

Patient, erm, not always.

I wouldn't trust any man that lived in Thailand so the description suits you well

Showing your true colours here Mr Bigot.

A dude my dad used to work with was a Greek Cypriot, his first name and surname were the same lol dervish dervish he was called.

I don't know your dad or the guy he used to work with but I DO know you're pretty stupid because Mr Dervish Dervish was Turkish Cypriot.



The last two statements kinda show why you not only lose at poker, but think it's rigged. Some people just lack intelligence. I wish you good luck and don't hold your stupidity against you.

Good old Cosbay <3 lol