Pocket JJ

[Rexas]

So we're playing 1/1 at dtd, pretty solid game, and it's been going pretty well. Then one of these spots comes up, where I was pretty sure it was going up on the HH thing here very early in the hand.

So, we have JJ in the SB. UTG raises to 4, middle position three bets to 12. Folds to the btn, who calls the 12. Utg is playing about 400, the same as us, middle position is playing 150, late position is playing about 80. Do we squeeze, and if so what sizing?

1) Assume we squeeze to 45, and get two callers from UTG an MP. Flop comes  . We c bet, and get three bet by UTG, and middle position shoves. We?

2) Assume we flat, and see the same flop. How should we proceed? Assume we donk 29, believing this board will be checked round a lot, and get raised by UTG and middle position ships it. We?

3) Assume we check, utg raises to 27, Mp makes it 65, btn folds, we?

[Tal]

I'll have a crack before the clever people turn up.

The problem with cold calling pre is you aren't closing the action, so a 4bet gives you the lead, options for making a play and information. 30 and be prepared to fold if UTG 5bets. We don't mind going multi way, but we are at least in shape to make rational decisions on the flop.

1.45 is a funny number because it implies that you would call if UTG 5bets and the chap on 80 gets his chips in. There's too much there not to call, etc. As to your question, this is an easy fold IMO. Why get it in with a mid overpair in the face of so much aggression?

2. As above, probably, as your 4-bet is going to be an effective all in after 29/80/150.

3. That's the only spot where you can consider a play by virtue of stack sizes, but I don't see what you are repping of real strength to check-raise. It's a set or a draw. You might get QQ to fold and possibly AKss, but I suspect a disciplined approach of letting those jacks go might be more profitable.


Very interested to hear views on this. Suspect I'm waaaaaay nittier than most

[zerofive]

Depends who these players are, but I'm very happy to click it with the intention of isoing the shortstack. We can go ahead and make it £41. Most 1/1 players will let you know if they have a monster utg here.

Generally what I'd expect to happen is utg folds and then you have a nice easy all-in against either player. If utg raises you have a nice easy fold. Can't see what hands they would open 4x and then flat the 41 with, but this is the same as raising unless they are absolutely clueless.

Flatting puts us in too much of an awkward spot. Make a list of hands you want to play oop in a 4-way pot and it's generally going to consist of the fit-or-fold type hands (22-88 looking to mine a set, your 76s, your T8s etc) It's certainly not going to consist of hands that are likely to be strong overpairs with no visibility.

We're only 4b/f versus one opponent in this hand so I think it's fine. It's certainly better than calling and losing £400 post-flop when we level ourselves versus QQ, it's better than calling and losing £400 when we lose a flip against , and it's definitely better than bet-folding the flop versus the deepstack to have him show you 99 or something.

Names of villains or info on villains' tendencies would help greatly. Also, would be good to know why you've chosen to play in a game that you're describing as "solid."

[Rexas]

Well, solid as in a good game to sit in. Adrian is the guy utg, middle position is a reg whose name i should know but don't, but we talk a fair bit. Nice guy, bit of a gambler and doesn't seem to take poker massively seriously, but plays for love of the game. Btn is a Canadian guy I had never met before, who was frankly clueless, despite having evidently played the game for a long time. Well, by played, i mean looked at pictures on cardboard and thrown pretty buttons into the middle. For all I know, he could have thought it was tiddlywinks with an added twist of cards. Well ok, he wasn't that bad, but still, point stands.

[pleno1]

squeezing readless would be pretty bad, i would rather fold heh.

[pleno1]

2) Assume we flat, and see the same flop. How should we proceed? Assume we donk 29, believing this board will be checked round a lot, and get raised by UTG and middle position ships it. We?

3) Assume we check, utg raises to 27, Mp makes it 65, btn folds, we?

how are these even questions, especially number 1? not even close to becoming close, KK would be close.

[pleno1]

huh we are 150 and 400bb deep

utg has opened

somebody has then 3x 3bet

[pleno1]

even the third guy has 80bbs lol

[Rexas]

Biggest troll ever.

[adiman999]

I feel there is two ways to play this hand in this particular situation. You can squeeze and fold to utgs jam but hopefully play for stacks vs a short stack. Especially the 3bettor in this hand who had show tendencies to be willing to get it in with any pair. So making it 40ish commits you to the short stacks but you can 4b/f vs a utg shove.

Option two is to play it like a small pair and flat purely with the intention to set mine. If you flat you can never donk the flop, I prefer just check folding a lot of flops if you opt to just flat pre unless you flop a set obv. In this particular hand if you flat pre, check flop, utg bets, mp raises and it's an easy fold or you.

I don't mind either option against the players in question. I probably prefer squeezing because you know the player utg well and know he will never 5bet you light oop and will fold most of his range facing a 3bet, a flat and a 4bet. So your decision are much easier if you squeeze. A defined plan of bet fold vs utg and if he folds play for stacks vs two gambling short stacks

[pleno1]

Biggest troll ever.

me? or somebody hacked your acct for op?

[Rexas]

Biggest troll ever.

me? or somebody hacked your acct for op?

Nope, definitely you. Why post if you have nothing constructive to say? You seem to do this a lot on this board. Just post in a way that comes across as very arrogant and condescending, for pretty much no reason. If you think analysing a hand is beneath you, then don't post.

[pleno1]

ok ill keep my opinions off board, apologies.

[Dubai]

I have gave Pleno stick for putting up loads of hands that didn't need to be posted and generally over thinking/analysing stuff but no way is he a troll, complete opposite, he goes totally out of his way to help people on this board when loads of people, myself included, gave up ages ago. I think your post is way out of line to him as whilst you may not agree with his tone/style in this thread- his post was constructive.

[George2Loose]

+1 to Dubai although Pleno does look a little bit like a baby troll. Bless