Is this bad etiquette?

[Honeybadger]

Good point Stu, but going to hand number one, perhaps speech play isn't tricking someone or are you mostly referring to hand 2?

You could use an example of board double pairs and one players says to the other "we definitely aren't splitting the pot", which could change action through speech?

Call it personal preference I guess. I just prefer not to say anything at all when a pot starts to get big. Maybe if I used a bit of clever speech play I might be able to get my opponent to call when he should fold (or vice versa). Or maybe it would be completely transparent and I'd end up shopping my hand and helping my opponent make a good decision. I really don't know, because I have never talked during a big pot. I consider this the most classy and respectful way to act, that's all.

I have a friend who has just come home early from his first trip to Vegas because he found the clever little strokes that the US players have been tricking him with distasteful and sharky. They may think of it as 'part of the game'. But their actions have stopped this recreational player from enjoying himself and thus staying in their games. He doesn't want to play with people who do that; he doesn't want to be made a fool of, he doesn't want to feel hustled. I believe that most recreational players feel the same.

[smurf]

Good point Stu, but going to hand number one, perhaps speech play isn't tricking someone or are you mostly referring to hand 2?

You could use an example of board double pairs and one players says to the other "we definitely aren't splitting the pot", which could change action through speech?

Call it personal preference I guess. I just prefer not to say anything at all when a pot starts to get big. Maybe if I used a bit of clever speech play I might be able to get my opponent to call when he should fold (or vice versa). Or maybe it would be completely transparent and I'd end up shopping my hand and helping my opponent make a good decision. I really don't know, because I have never talked during a big pot. I consider this the most classy and respectful way to act, that's all.

I have a friend who has just come home early from his first trip to Vegas because he found the clever little strokes that the US players have been tricking him with distasteful and sharky. They may think of it as 'part of the game'. But their actions have stopped this recreational player from enjoying himself and thus staying in their games. He doesn't want to play with people who do that; he doesn't want to be made a fool of, he doesn't want to feel hustled. I believe that most recreational players feel the same.

do tell

[Boba Fett]

I actually think #1 is more douchey than #2 despite not really being "wrong", Id just think you were an ass if you did either of them

[biggy333x]

    I think you need to stop being a tool basically.
  
    First one is £300 d/s, most players will be on to you and know what ur up to like when ppl say "jus don't raise me" etc wanting you to.  You jus look like an idiot trying it on.

    The second one is low steaks cash game and i believe this is very dependant on the player to how much of a toolish move it is.  Against a rec player ur nearly doug lee levels as he might see ur cards "over the line" and believe that they are as good as mucked thinking u might want toilet/ smoke etc and want to muck asap.  Vs a reg, its you still look quite  a bit of tool cos he'll see it and as soon as u flat/raise w/e knows what you were up to and now jus thinks ur a knob for trying it on.  Carry on doing both it you want to as the other guy said "let rec players leave with a bad taste in their mouth" and let regs think ur a moron for doing stupid stuff like that.

    I think the guy telling you that it was a bit out of order was trying to tell you that you looked a prick and to stop doing it tbh even tho neither are tech against the rules they are a bit bad etiquette imo.

[SuuPRlim]

Without meaning to cause offence Aaron a couple of my friends have played with you and basically said you were awful to play with, only saying this because you brought the question of what is bad etiquette up, those two things you did are both pretty pointless - good experienced players will see straight through them, weak players will either pay no notice or be annoyed at you - I've called people out on this stuff mid-hand before btw and would do again lol

But yh, from what people have said about sharing a table with you (mostly Jamie in the DTD300 you finalled) they told me you were obnoxious, arrogant and generally pretty rude whilst playing telling people how good you were etc and belittling people after you won a pot which is very bad etiquette, I'd work on improving that and lose all these stupid lil strokes personally.

Fwiw a lot of very nice people are like this at a poker tables so non real reflection on your personality at i'm basically saying lose the ego.

[cambridgealex]

Without meaning to cause offence Aaron a couple of my friends have played with you and basically said you were awful to play with, only saying this because you brought the question of what is bad etiquette up, those two things you did are both pretty pointless - good experienced players will see straight through them, weak players will either pay no notice or be annoyed at you - I've called people out on this stuff mid-hand before btw and would do again lol

But yh, from what people have said about sharing a table with you (mostly Jamie in the DTD300 you finalled) they told me you were obnoxious, arrogant and generally pretty rude whilst playing telling people how good you were etc and belittling people after you won a pot which is very bad etiquette, I'd work on improving that and lose all these stupid lil strokes personally.

Fwiw a lot of very nice people are like this at a poker tables so non real reflection on your personality at i'm basically saying lose the ego.

NO I can't believe it.

He's so nice and humble when he posts on blonde!

[gouty]

We used to have regular home game years ago at a friends house on the first Sunday of the month. There was a guy in our local who kept badgering us to let him play but he was a real mouthy guy and we kept putting him off.

Eventually he got an invite from one of the players and turns up well oiled shall we say? After 90 mins he stacked off about 4 times and berates players on how lucky they were and basically being a cock and pretty disrespectful to the guy whose flat we were in.

Anyway, he is busto and no one is lending him anything so he gives us a mouthful and storms out. Not a unique story I grant you.

We all carry on playing and about an hour later there is a load of banging on the door. The flat owner goes out and returns rather red faced. It was his neighbour going on about someone in the building having a dog which is against the tenancy rules.

It was probably the all time classic poker etiquette faux pas. After the guy left the game he squatted on the landing and squeezed out a long jobbee outside the door to the flat. Nice.

[kinboshi]

At least he waited until he left the game...

[Cook]

First one kinda puts your hand face up but still wouldnt say it's bad etiquette..
Second i'm guilty of doing, pokers full of mind games rather than tactical play anyway so i don't personally think it's bad

[rfgqqabc]

Without meaning to cause offence Aaron a couple of my friends have played with you and basically said you were awful to play with, only saying this because you brought the question of what is bad etiquette up, those two things you did are both pretty pointless - good experienced players will see straight through them, weak players will either pay no notice or be annoyed at you - I've called people out on this stuff mid-hand before btw and would do again lol

But yh, from what people have said about sharing a table with you (mostly Jamie in the DTD300 you finalled) they told me you were obnoxious, arrogant and generally pretty rude whilst playing telling people how good you were etc and belittling people after you won a pot which is very bad etiquette, I'd work on improving that and lose all these stupid lil strokes personally.

Fwiw a lot of very nice people are like this at a poker tables so non real reflection on your personality at i'm basically saying lose the ego.

NO I can't believe it.

He's so nice and humble when he posts on blonde!

And the trollee became the trollerr! Rise above

Don't really hate either.

[Rexas]

I don't think I could write a comment here without it coming across as a troll, given my history :p

[CHIPPYMAN]

Without meaning to cause offence Aaron a couple of my friends have played with you and basically said you were awful to play with, only saying this because you brought the question of what is bad etiquette up, those two things you did are both pretty pointless - good experienced players will see straight through them, weak players will either pay no notice or be annoyed at you - I've called people out on this stuff mid-hand before btw and would do again lol

But yh, from what people have said about sharing a table with you (mostly Jamie in the DTD300 you finalled) they told me you were obnoxious, arrogant and generally pretty rude whilst playing telling people how good you were etc and belittling people after you won a pot which is very bad etiquette, I'd work on improving that and lose all these stupid lil strokes personally.

Fwiw a lot of very nice people are like this at a poker tables so non real reflection on your personality at i'm basically saying lose the ego.

NO I can't believe it.

He's so nice and humble when he posts on blonde!

English only please

[Tal]

Fold pre.


But seriously, I have no problem with either but I would be more impressed if you ran them as bluffs and you actually had nothing, because both of those were more likely (the way you have described them) to generate folds than calls. If #2 were a subtle movement of the cards away from your body to feign weakness (like a couple of inches tops) and a closing of your body language towards the villain (both showing weakness), different story. These sound much more obviously strength and a half decent player in 2013 will.see right through level 1 tells.

As to the actually question, no issue whatsoever with either. Would it make you boyfriend material? No. Would it mean you were less of a poker player? Not to me. It isn't the height of class but speechplay is regarded as a dirty trick by those less familiar with live poker and I think that's unfair.

Look at that Rastafish v PJ heads up.contest in the Grand Prix. Rastafish was full of psychological tricks, trying to get inside PJ's head and make him make mistakes in hands. PJ found a way to deal with it. That's just poker.

[cambridgealex]

Yup he won flips

[aaron1867]

Without meaning to cause offence Aaron a couple of my friends have played with you and basically said you were awful to play with, only saying this because you brought the question of what is bad etiquette up, those two things you did are both pretty pointless - good experienced players will see straight through them, weak players will either pay no notice or be annoyed at you - I've called people out on this stuff mid-hand before btw and would do again lol

But yh, from what people have said about sharing a table with you (mostly Jamie in the DTD300 you finalled) they told me you were obnoxious, arrogant and generally pretty rude whilst playing telling people how good you were etc and belittling people after you won a pot which is very bad etiquette, I'd work on improving that and lose all these stupid lil strokes personally.

Fwiw a lot of very nice people are like this at a poker tables so non real reflection on your personality at i'm basically saying lose the ego.

Obviously Jamie took me too literally, lol. He has only shared a table once with me & me saying "I'm really good" is just me joking, any of the regulars I share with in Sheffield or any festivals will tell you I just joke when saying such things.

However amused that gossiping happens really, even him and Alex took to Twitter lolz.