blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 11, 2025, 10:17:30 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2262839 Posts in 66615 Topics by 16992 Members
Latest Member: Rmf22
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  Poker Hand Analysis
| | |-+  Missing Value?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Missing Value?  (Read 1323 times)
chelseaboy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 606



View Profile
« on: July 04, 2013, 02:45:57 PM »

PokerStars Hand #100893587088:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2013/07/02 20:56:33 ET
Table 'Atami II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: krazykarter ($2.02 in chips)
Seat 2: CFC2012 ($8.14 in chips)
Seat 3: bili160 ($3.87 in chips)
Seat 4: jabbaco ($12.97 in chips)
Seat 5: WerewolfGR ($5.37 in chips)
Seat 6: united19-p ($5.05 in chips)
Seat 7: gohza ($2.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Y@NC@RLO ($8.97 in chips)    12/10 Over 421 Hands!
krazykarter: posts small blind $0.02
CFC2012: posts big blind $0.05
msJakson: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CFC2012 [ ]
bili160: folds
jabbaco: folds
WerewolfGR: folds
united19-p: folds
gohza: folds
Y@NC@RLO: raises $0.10 to $0.15
krazykarter: folds
CFC2012: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [ ]
CFC2012: checks
Y@NC@RLO: bets $0.22
CFC2012: raises $0.23 to $0.45
Y@NC@RLO: calls $0.23
*** TURN *** [ ] []
CFC2012: bets $1.25
Y@NC@RLO: calls $1.25
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
CFC2012: Huh?

Should I be value betting this river even though his AK, KQ, range might of got there?
Logged
lucky_scrote
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3525



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2013, 05:50:06 PM »

3bet pre

As played check raise but make it like $1.10 or something not a min raise.

There are a few Kx hands he can have like KQ and KQ, not too many 8's. You can bet like 40% pot here.
Logged

<3 ENSUING
stato_1 said, "banoffee pie i reckon"
stato_1 said, "this is delicious"
Nit Tendencies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 584

Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2013, 06:24:27 PM »

Definitely don't 3bet pre.

I think your sizing is wrong on this board texture, I'd make it like $1 since there is so much he can continue with once he's bet the flop, and then i'd bet close to pot ott to set up a shallow pot/stack for the river and because he has so many pair+draw kind of hands on this texture.

IMHO the way to beat micro and low stakes cash is just to play for value and absolutely hammer the pot when you've got it because no-one ever folds.

Taking both my line and yours I still c/f river. The reason why we've c/r and bombed turn is because a lot of his range is made up of pair + draws and a chunk of them now have a straight. I guess it's close between checking and betting like 1/4 pot but tbh I think just c/f.
Logged

Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?
Rexas
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1963


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2013, 07:28:46 PM »

Disagree with 3 betting pre, unless you're psychic and know you're going to flop a set, in which case do your utmost to get the lot in the middle Wink

As played, we want to put ourselves in a situation where we can feasibly get it in by the river with our hand. Personally, I think making it $1 from 22 is a little on the big side, but its not entirely necessary. If we make it like 85 here, then the pot on the turn is 2.02. We can then basically pot it, call it $2, which makes the pot 6.02. We are then left with $5.14, a little under a pot sized bet, so the next logical bet is a shove. Given the board run out, I think it's unlikely our bet gets called on the river, but on most run outs we can set up an all in spot comfortably with this bet sizing. Most likely the guy has Q10 Smiley

Logged

humour is very much encouraged, however theres humour and theres not.
I disrepectfully agree with Matt Smiley
Nit Tendencies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 584

Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 04:28:02 PM »

I'm pretty sure no-one folds two pair to a 1/4 pot bet otr at this level but I do think it is thin and I'd probably go for the c/f.
Logged

Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?
Nit Tendencies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 584

Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 06:47:37 PM »

You can bet exploitatively like this all the way up to $100nl fwiw.
Logged

Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?
pleno1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18912



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 01:09:43 AM »

Flop sizing is just terrible and means you have a gigantic leak in your thought process. Sorry to be blunt.

Just think about things a little bit

1) would you ever bluff raise a flop like this?

2) look at positions lets say you wanted to bluff raise the flop like this how do you ever expect folds and ere are so many good turn cards for villains range

Jsut in general we should be going to 65-80 absolute minimum both with our bluffing range and our value range. As we're oop I would construct my bluffing range asgutshots th back door clubs or overs and cobs. My value range would look like sets and potentially kj/aj depending on villains tendencies.

When you are thinking of what to do ask yourself couple f questions

1) what range am I raising for value

2) what range am I raising as a bliiff

3) how does villain see both of these ranges

how do I plan on playing different turns with the different parts of my ranges

Once we have that covered we can look at sizing generally sizing will always be very similar but we can make it a certain amount. S that we can set up a river jam. So sometimes you may need to make it 90 on the flop instead of 60 so you can bet 2.70 on the turn and then jam river for 7 or whatever works.

You don't need to worry about"oh this looks strong he obviously knows I have asset" as you're playing your entire range not your specific hand.

It's a leak a lot of people have.

Example- you raise utg and get 3bet utg1. You have aces and say to yourself if I 4bet here I look really strong. If you call you say you obviously say you have aces.

Flop j73 and you want to raise the fl you are paranoid so with 98 you don't do it because you think he won't put you on a value hand. With 22 you don't do it because you're scared it's obvious you have asset. If you think aboru your actual range ie which hands am I going to 3bet and which hands am I gong to flat, which will I bluff call which William bluff fold and then summarise knowing exactly how you're playing your complete range en you will improve significantly as a player.
Logged

Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
chelseaboy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 606



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 09:59:19 AM »

What a brilliant post... I dont mind you or anyone being BLUNT... its what I need to hear to improve and to progress!

I understand the min raise on the flop is just awful.... ive made it so cheap for villain to call with any drawing hand.

Your right in saying that I play my specific hand, I do this far to often and not my range causing me to be very passive at times!!

I need to think about the dynamics of my hands far more than just what is infront of me... Your questions and thought process is very clear and I need to slow down and ask myself these questions before making quick un thought out rash calls, folds, checks.

In answer to the initial post, I checked the river scared that he had got there and he checked back !





Logged
pleno1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18912



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 10:27:33 AM »

What a brilliant post... I dont mind you or anyone being BLUNT... its what I need to hear to improve and to progress!

I understand the min raise on the flop is just awful.... ive made it so cheap for villain to call with any drawing hand.

Your right in saying that I play my specific hand, I do this far to often and not my range causing me to be very passive at times!!

I need to think about the dynamics of my hands far more than just what is infront of me... Your questions and thought process is very clear and I need to slow down and ask myself these questions before making quick un thought out rash calls, folds, checks.

In answer to the initial post, I checked the river scared that he had got there and he checked back !







Huch backs up the suggested thought process.
Pre literally has one of the very few hands in his range that you can beat and because you flopped the basic nuts you are questioning your river check back because you were good rather than thinking ye I beat this but vs his entire range its definitely not a value bet.

Just,use poker stove,or,equilab and play with ranges
Logged

Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
chelseaboy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 606



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 01:21:05 PM »

Cheers pal!! GL for the Main Event!
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.165 seconds with 19 queries.