UKIPT Galway hand

[pleno1]

400bb deep we should be raising bigger than 2.5x with our entire range. We can still be fully exploitative, making it say 5-6x with our strong hands and weaker with our speculative hands - provided the table isn't observant enough - but we're rarely going to be getting 400bb in postflop in a smaller pot, and peoples' ranges in these things don't change hugely with respect to your raise size.

Having said all that, we still need to pay some respect to range-balancing in these types of tournaments. Even if our opponents are god-awful at playing hands they're still observant and liable to make some absurd bluffs. I think the purpose of the turn 3b is not to 'define' peoples' ranges but rather get him to play honestly vs our hand. In that context I like it.

When just called in two spots, though, I think we have the best hand quite a lot and should fire for value on the river.

If truth be told I was just pleased my plan had worked exactly as I had hoped and was happy to check the river.

On reflection a bet of ~3800 would have been perfect.

Prob the only hands I'm losing to is the nut flush which C1 might still have or QJ flush of the BB - maybe Qx suited.

Far more hands I'm beating.

Far more hands or far more combos? Ax sites is alt d combos!! Terr is not that many set combos especially as we hve a blocker too.

A4
A5
A6
A8
Aj
Aq
K8
Kj
Kq
Q8
Qt
Qj


Remember just because one of them has a worse hand than u it doesn't mean the other guy does too.

Maybe im just the worst though.

[The Camel]

I really think this hand is butchered and you were very lucky to win the maximum here.

Preflop you are 400bb deep 2.5x seems ridiculous and something I see so many guys doing.
On the turn this is a very very clear flat call. Va a value range you are definitely behind and vs a range that reraises ki you are dead. 3b folding seems horrific.

I would rather call now and fold to 4k Otr than 3bet.

If we decide we should 3bettheb I would size to 5400 for value as 3400 and check back feels ridiculous when it's very likely on the river we will get more than 1500 in value if we continue after this.

Alternatively, calling now and donking river for 3500 will hear superior than raisin another 1400 now IMO.

Not sure the term "ridiculous" is fair terminology 

Its true there are a lot of people that will  stick to the same pre bet sizing  (2x for example ) right through the tournament and not adjust to players and changes in blinds and antes .

Early on in deep stack tournaments I like to mix it up and isolate the calling stations with 3.5 ,4  even 5x depending on the players at the table

As regards the river I would lead out , if Im ahead its  value betting but donking also acts as a blocker because  a marginal bigger flush is likely to just call  , however If I do get re raised Im pretty sure its a puke fold  (even though we now know we are ahead )

Well I would use the words awful, terrible and very bad but because these guys win money I find it ridiculous instead. I do think it shows a big disregard for stack sizes though.

Meh, with 97 suited I want to play a multi way pot pre.

I'm happy seeing the flop 5 handed when my opponents have zero clue what cards I might have.

If I'd made 225 to play the TT would definitely call, the 86 suited might not.

And that's definitely not what I want.

[The Camel]

400bb deep we should be raising bigger than 2.5x with our entire range. We can still be fully exploitative, making it say 5-6x with our strong hands and weaker with our speculative hands - provided the table isn't observant enough - but we're rarely going to be getting 400bb in postflop in a smaller pot, and peoples' ranges in these things don't change hugely with respect to your raise size.

Having said all that, we still need to pay some respect to range-balancing in these types of tournaments. Even if our opponents are god-awful at playing hands they're still observant and liable to make some absurd bluffs. I think the purpose of the turn 3b is not to 'define' peoples' ranges but rather get him to play honestly vs our hand. In that context I like it.

When just called in two spots, though, I think we have the best hand quite a lot and should fire for value on the river.

If truth be told I was just pleased my plan had worked exactly as I had hoped and was happy to check the river.

On reflection a bet of ~3800 would have been perfect.

Prob the only hands I'm losing to is the nut flush which C1 might still have or QJ flush of the BB - maybe Qx suited.

Far more hands I'm beating.

Far more hands or far more combos? Ax sites is alt d combos!! Terr is not that many set combos especially as we hve a blocker too.

A4
A5
A6
A8
Aj
Aq
K8
Kj
Kq
Q8
Qt
Qj


Remember just because one of them has a worse hand than u it doesn't mean the other guy does too.

Maybe im just the worst though.

Obv but the but the nut flush is just one hand.

Would they have slow played this to death or charged a priced for sets to pair up?

[FUN4FRASER]

I really think this hand is butchered and you were very lucky to win the maximum here.

Preflop you are 400bb deep 2.5x seems ridiculous and something I see so many guys doing.
On the turn this is a very very clear flat call. Va a value range you are definitely behind and vs a range that reraises ki you are dead. 3b folding seems horrific.

I would rather call now and fold to 4k Otr than 3bet.

If we decide we should 3bettheb I would size to 5400 for value as 3400 and check back feels ridiculous when it's very likely on the river we will get more than 1500 in value if we continue after this.

Alternatively, calling now and donking river for 3500 will hear superior than raisin another 1400 now IMO.

Not sure the term "ridiculous" is fair terminology 

Its true there are a lot of people that will  stick to the same pre bet sizing  (2x for example ) right through the tournament and not adjust to players and changes in blinds and antes .

Early on in deep stack tournaments I like to mix it up and isolate the calling stations with 3.5 ,4  even 5x depending on the players at the table

As regards the river I would lead out , if Im ahead its  value betting but donking also acts as a blocker because  a marginal bigger flush is likely to just call  , however If I do get re raised Im pretty sure its a puke fold  (even though we now know we are ahead )

What range are we value betting against on the river?

Any set and lower flush...

Already given my reasons for leading out if we are beaten by any higher flush J ,Q even K high they may just call behind.

[The Camel]

Patrick, you haven't mentioned at any stage what you thought C1 might have.

My whole strategy in the hand was that the BB could not make a move in the hand without pretty much only the nuts because I was 3 betting with him there which lends credence to the fact my hand is super strong. (stronger than it actually is for sure)

[pleno1]

I really think this hand is butchered and you were very lucky to win the maximum here.

Preflop you are 400bb deep 2.5x seems ridiculous and something I see so many guys doing.
On the turn this is a very very clear flat call. Va a value range you are definitely behind and vs a range that reraises ki you are dead. 3b folding seems horrific.

I would rather call now and fold to 4k Otr than 3bet.

If we decide we should 3bettheb I would size to 5400 for value as 3400 and check back feels ridiculous when it's very likely on the river we will get more than 1500 in value if we continue after this.

Alternatively, calling now and donking river for 3500 will hear superior than raisin another 1400 now IMO.

Not sure the term "ridiculous" is fair terminology 

Its true there are a lot of people that will  stick to the same pre bet sizing  (2x for example ) right through the tournament and not adjust to players and changes in blinds and antes .

Early on in deep stack tournaments I like to mix it up and isolate the calling stations with 3.5 ,4  even 5x depending on the players at the table

As regards the river I would lead out , if Im ahead its  value betting but donking also acts as a blocker because  a marginal bigger flush is likely to just call  , however If I do get re raised Im pretty sure its a puke fold  (even though we now know we are ahead )

What range are we value betting against on the river?

Any set and lower flush...

Already given my reasons for leading out if we are beaten by any higher flush J ,Q even K high they may just call behind.

Yes but unfortunately in a RANGE there is not JUST weaker hands, it contains stornger hands too. So if we give him low flushes he definitely has higher flushes too.

[FUN4FRASER]

I really think this hand is butchered and you were very lucky to win the maximum here.

Preflop you are 400bb deep 2.5x seems ridiculous and something I see so many guys doing.
On the turn this is a very very clear flat call. Va a value range you are definitely behind and vs a range that reraises ki you are dead. 3b folding seems horrific.

I would rather call now and fold to 4k Otr than 3bet.

If we decide we should 3bettheb I would size to 5400 for value as 3400 and check back feels ridiculous when it's very likely on the river we will get more than 1500 in value if we continue after this.

Alternatively, calling now and donking river for 3500 will hear superior than raisin another 1400 now IMO.

Not sure the term "ridiculous" is fair terminology 

Its true there are a lot of people that will  stick to the same pre bet sizing  (2x for example ) right through the tournament and not adjust to players and changes in blinds and antes .

Early on in deep stack tournaments I like to mix it up and isolate the calling stations with 3.5 ,4  even 5x depending on the players at the table

As regards the river I would lead out , if Im ahead its  value betting but donking also acts as a blocker because  a marginal bigger flush is likely to just call  , however If I do get re raised Im pretty sure its a puke fold  (even though we now know we are ahead )

What range are we value betting against on the river?

Any set and lower flush...

Already given my reasons for leading out if we are beaten by any higher flush J ,Q even K high they may just call behind.

Yes but unfortunately in a RANGE there is not JUST weaker hands, it contains stornger hands too. So if we give him low flushes he definitely has higher flushes too.

I understand what a RANGE is hence I identified the hands we could be beating and then highlighted ( in red above) the flushes that were beating us (excluding the nut flush ofc )

[Dry em]

Wazz, can you show me a Pokerstove with 2 ranges (one that c/r called and one that cold called a check raise) pls

Wazz come on, we are waiting on this.

[cambridgealex]

Wazz, can you show me a Pokerstove with 2 ranges (one that c/r called and one that cold called a check raise) pls

Wazz come on, we are waiting on this.

Rofl

[pleno1]

I don't get it?

[pleno1]

Ohhh lol

[AlexMartin]

i dont mind pre 2.5x but not from early this deep. agree w monda and plen  regarding turn etc. Just see so little value and so many bluffs in his range we freeze with the 3bet. I can definitely see a sicko ripping AsX v this line also.

[dwayne110]

I'm confused as to why 2.5x bet sizing is so bad with a hand like 9-7 suited, irrespective of whether it's 100, 200, or 400 big blinds. I understand it's (a) less likely we'll get all the chips in the middle and (b) more likely to encourage more speculative calls (which with a hand like 9-7 suited we surely want multi-way), but from a strategy view point why is it bad to play a 'small ball' strategy pre-flop? Is it a simple mathematical conclusion in terms of optimum game theory to raise bigger relative to number of blinds?

[Royal Flush]

Camel i like the play, forget all these kids trying to keep some old boys 'bluffs' in

I think you are right, he smashes it with better, he calls with worse and doesn't accidentally bluff you when he value bets river, not to mention you get more value from C1

[AlexMartin]

Camel i like the play, forget all these kids trying to keep some old boys 'bluffs' in

I think you are right, he smashes it with better, he calls with worse and doesn't accidentally bluff you when he value bets river, not to mention you get more value from C1

got to say, watched you on sky and though jesus that kids got game. nice innings that