We are all Aliens anyway...

[BangBang]

I understand what you're saying Tom, but theory and facts are two separate things.  

In science it doesn’t go Hypothesis, theory the graduate to fact when proved, so testable is a relative word here.

Facts come first and they’re not proved they’re observed to be true.  We observe evolution to be fact, but science is not about facts, it’s about getting explanation for facts, we make assumptions which form hypothesis and then gather evidence for the hypothesis which become theories.  All theories can refuted against new theories based on the observation of facts and technology available to the observer

So it’s always a theory and never proven, hence why I mentioned something as far fetched as aliens.  

[BangBang]

Whenever an outrageous or "ridiculous" idea is brought forward as an explanation for something, with no evidence to support it please refer to Occam's Razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Science doesn't try to prove anything. It makes a best guess at a model or hypothesis based on existing evidence, tries to disprove the theory through experiment and observation, and constantly challenges and questions.

Saying "aliens done it" or "goddidit" might be impossible to disprove, but neither is it based on any real evidence and neither is it useful. These wild and unsubstantiated ideas don't actually predict anything or achieve anything tangible.

As for talking about society and civilisation "evolving" - that's not the same thing as evolution in terms of the biological term. One is a very specific thing in a scientific discipline, the term is also used in general practice, but the definitions are not interchangeable. There is the same confusion with the word "theory" which means one thing in scientific use and another in general conversation when I could say something like "I have a theory about why celtic is so bad at poker". There are terms in finance and law (for example) that have very specific definitions, but also have definitions outside those fields that are used in everyday conversation, and again the two uses shouldn't be confused.

Creationists often introduce an argument where they try to interchange the uses of the words "theory " and "evolution" to win an argument. It just tends to highlight their lack of logic and reason.

Anyway, were we discussing evolution in terms of the effects from natural selection on random mutations on individuals and species, or something else?  

Provoking debate on Human evolution and was it could it have been spurred by something other then natural selection..

[theprawnidentity]

So it’s always a theory and never proven

Am I right in thinking that gravity is only a theory too?

[BangBang]

So it’s always a theory and never proven

Am I right in thinking that gravity is only a theory too?

Gravity is a law.

Evolution is fact, a good example of this is bacteria and how is grows resistant to antibiotics. 

[theprawnidentity]

So it’s always a theory and never proven

Am I right in thinking that gravity is only a theory too?

Gravity is a law.

Evolution is fact, a good example of this is bacteria and how is grows resistant to antibiotics. 

After a quick bit of research, I found out that it can be both.

"So when we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory that describes why the objects attract each other"

A little bit off topic though.  I would guess there is more evidence to support the theory of evolution than there is aliens landed and started messing about with stuff?

[kinboshi]

Whenever an outrageous or "ridiculous" idea is brought forward as an explanation for something, with no evidence to support it please refer to Occam's Razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Science doesn't try to prove anything. It makes a best guess at a model or hypothesis based on existing evidence, tries to disprove the theory through experiment and observation, and constantly challenges and questions.

Saying "aliens done it" or "goddidit" might be impossible to disprove, but neither is it based on any real evidence and neither is it useful. These wild and unsubstantiated ideas don't actually predict anything or achieve anything tangible.

As for talking about society and civilisation "evolving" - that's not the same thing as evolution in terms of the biological term. One is a very specific thing in a scientific discipline, the term is also used in general practice, but the definitions are not interchangeable. There is the same confusion with the word "theory" which means one thing in scientific use and another in general conversation when I could say something like "I have a theory about why celtic is so bad at poker". There are terms in finance and law (for example) that have very specific definitions, but also have definitions outside those fields that are used in everyday conversation, and again the two uses shouldn't be confused.

Creationists often introduce an argument where they try to interchange the uses of the words "theory " and "evolution" to win an argument. It just tends to highlight their lack of logic and reason.

Anyway, were we discussing evolution in terms of the effects from natural selection on random mutations on individuals and species, or something else?   

Provoking debate on Human evolution and was it could it have been spurred by something other then natural selection..

There's a tonne of evidence that shows how humans have evolved that fits with all the accepted knowledge and understanding of evolution.  In fact the theory of evolution, predicted a lot of things that have subsequently been discovered.

Aliens - no evidence, no credible theory, no need to consider it - Occam's Razor.  It might make a good science fiction story though, in fact it has been.  Emphasis on the 'fiction' element though.

Natural selection is a fundamental and necessary part of the evolution of species. 

[kinboshi]

So it’s always a theory and never proven

Am I right in thinking that gravity is only a theory too?

Gravity is a law.

Evolution is fact, a good example of this is bacteria and how is grows resistant to antibiotics. 

Newton's laws have been amended based on new theories and evidence.  A fella called Einstein was involved in that. 

There is a theory of gravity, theory of evolution, theory of general relativity.  Why do people need to introduce imaginary aliens into the picture as an alternative...'theory'? 

[Ironside]

Whenever an outrageous or "ridiculous" idea is brought forward as an explanation for something, with no evidence to support it please refer to Occam's Razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Science doesn't try to prove anything. It makes a best guess at a model or hypothesis based on existing evidence, tries to disprove the theory through experiment and observation, and constantly challenges and questions.

Saying "aliens done it" or "goddidit" might be impossible to disprove, but neither is it based on any real evidence and neither is it useful. These wild and unsubstantiated ideas don't actually predict anything or achieve anything tangible.

As for talking about society and civilisation "evolving" - that's not the same thing as evolution in terms of the biological term. One is a very specific thing in a scientific discipline, the term is also used in general practice, but the definitions are not interchangeable. There is the same confusion with the word "theory" which means one thing in scientific use and another in general conversation when I could say something like "I have a theory about why celtic is so bad at poker". There are terms in finance and law (for example) that have very specific definitions, but also have definitions outside those fields that are used in everyday conversation, and again the two uses shouldn't be confused.

Creationists often introduce an argument where they try to interchange the uses of the words "theory " and "evolution" to win an argument. It just tends to highlight their lack of logic and reason.

Anyway, were we discussing evolution in terms of the effects from natural selection on random mutations on individuals and species, or something else?   

so what you trying too say Noah wasnt the skipper of the starship cruise-liner Alien New World?

[BangBang]

I’m familiar with Occam’s Razor and love Einsteins quote

“Make everything simple as possible, but not simpler”  

But “simple” is a subjective word.

So when applied here you have your side which makes the simplest route for yourself and let’s say a conspiracy theorist could argue the that aliens came down 65 million years ago, killed off the Dinosaurs and planted life which then took another say 12 million years to develop as they did 200 million years before that.  And a creationist has another view.. Even though there’s no empirical evidence for these theories creationist and conspiracy theorists find these theories "Simple"

Just because we look for the simplest possibilities first, it doesn’t make them necessarily correct.  A lot of the popular theories today were unsubstantiated theories once, the development of modern technology and science have changed that.  Who’s to say that our belief today will not go back to historic theories that were once ridiculed?

Aliens changing the cycle of human evolution; is just a topic of discussion for me, I never made any claims that this is “true” or that this is my belief.

Okay now to give you my actual stand point on it, which hasn’t changed since I was around 17 years old.  “Evolution by natural selection” but thought  this was a fun topic to bring up and challenge debate on.  It’s easy to defend something that you believe in but a lot harder to give arguments to the alternative. I do believe in God and Karma but in a higher energy type of way not a person that created everything kind of way

So what’s your take on intelligent alien life? (This question is directed at everyone)

[kinboshi]

170,000,000,000 galaxies in the known universe (give or take).

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in total (give or take).

Likelihood of life occurring somewhere else other than this 'pale blue dot' - pretty high I'd think.

Likelihood of intelligent life - also pretty high I'd have thought.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light-years to reach earth to 'visit' and then bugger off - very slim.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light years to reach earth to plant the human race (and place loads of false evidence that points towards another explanation) and then buggering off without a trace - slimmer than a very slim thing.

[BangBang]

Interesting post and interesting forum. I could waste spend a lot of time on this forum. This topic does interest me a lot but it is hard to get good referenced information, particularly in favour of some of the more bizarre theories that are about. I really enjoyed this topic, despite not really believing the in favour side. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread313281/pg1&mem=

Sorry I missed this... Will take a look when I finish up today...

I agree, it's fun looking at these topics even though most of them a pretty far fetched..

[kinboshi]

Oh, and the chance we'll get to 'interact' with an intelligent alien life-form in our life-time? 

Unfortunately, probably very slim indeed.

[BangBang]

170,000,000,000 galaxies in the known universe (give or take).

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in total (give or take).

Likelihood of life occurring somewhere else other than this 'pale blue dot' - pretty high I'd think.

Likelihood of intelligent life - also pretty high I'd have thought.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light-years to reach earth to 'visit' and then bugger off - very slim.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light years to reach earth to plant the human race (and place loads of false evidence that points towards another explanation) and then buggering off without a trace - slimmer than a very slim thing.

The human race is a pretty young compared to the age of the planet, but in terms of development we have technology capable of space travel, who's to say that there aren't older races in the universe that have grasped the concept of "Light speed" or "Time travel" it's very likely that if these species are older and maybe more developed or just more advanced.. Let's not rule anything out.. May I remind you of the movie "Independence Day" and also the theory regarding the Scientific propaganda ...

Oh, and the chance we'll get to 'interact' with an intelligent alien life-form in our life-time?  

Unfortunately, probably very slim indeed.

Always the optimist..
  

[kinboshi]

170,000,000,000 galaxies in the known universe (give or take).

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in total (give or take).

Likelihood of life occurring somewhere else other than this 'pale blue dot' - pretty high I'd think.

Likelihood of intelligent life - also pretty high I'd have thought.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light-years to reach earth to 'visit' and then bugger off - very slim.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light years to reach earth to plant the human race (and place loads of false evidence that points towards another explanation) and then buggering off without a trace - slimmer than a very slim thing.

The human race is a pretty young compared to the age of the planet, but in terms of development we have technology capable of space travel, who's to say that there aren't older races in the universe that have grasped the concept of "Light speed" or "Time travel" it's very likely that if these species are older and maybe more developed or just more advanced.. Let's not rule anything out.. You saw what happened in Independence Day...

Oh, and the chance we'll get to 'interact' with an intelligent alien life-form in our life-time? 

Unfortunately, probably very slim indeed.

Always the optimist..
 

It would take something in the region of 30,000 years to travel to the centre of our own galaxy - at the speed of light!

I'm also pretty confident with our understanding of physics that time-travel or travelling at (or even close) to the speed of light for anything with appreciable mass isn't possible, no matter what level of technology we have.

Also, the fact we haven't met any of these intelligent alien races already means we're not likely to meet them any time soon either.  Which is a shame, as it would be the best thing....ever.

[BangBang]

170,000,000,000 galaxies in the known universe (give or take).

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in total (give or take).

Likelihood of life occurring somewhere else other than this 'pale blue dot' - pretty high I'd think.

Likelihood of intelligent life - also pretty high I'd have thought.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light-years to reach earth to 'visit' and then bugger off - very slim.

Chance of intelligent life travelling millions of light years to reach earth to plant the human race (and place loads of false evidence that points towards another explanation) and then buggering off without a trace - slimmer than a very slim thing.

The human race is a pretty young compared to the age of the planet, but in terms of development we have technology capable of space travel, who's to say that there aren't older races in the universe that have grasped the concept of "Light speed" or "Time travel" it's very likely that if these species are older and maybe more developed or just more advanced.. Let's not rule anything out.. You saw what happened in Independence Day...

Oh, and the chance we'll get to 'interact' with an intelligent alien life-form in our life-time?  

Unfortunately, probably very slim indeed.

Always the optimist..
  

It would take something in the region of 30,000 years to travel to the centre of our own galaxy - at the speed of light!

I'm also pretty confident with our understanding of physics that time-travel or travelling at (or even close) to the speed of light for anything with appreciable mass isn't possible, no matter what level of technology we have.

Also, the fact we haven't met any of these intelligent alien races already means we're not likely to meet them any time soon either.  Which is a shame, as it would be the best thing....ever.

I did Did I say time time travel too 

I agree...