Russell Brand vs. Jeremy Paxman

[redarmi]

This is the Russell Brand who has uprooted to a lower tax country with more inequality.  In fact he is very much part of the Elite he talks about.  You think Paxman or Cameron will answer my calls?  

And all this bs about how the Government is creating an underclass just ticks me off too.  There has always been an underclass, but there lot has got a lot better over the last 100 years.  Cameron hasn't just created them in the last few years.

Anybody who really thinks that the people in power really wouldn't like to raise more taxes from Amazon and Russell Brand just doesn't get reality.  They would take every penny they realistic could at the minute, but unfortunately those big corporations and rich individuals find ways of moving their income around the World to places that they don't get taxed as much, or if at all.

This doesn't happen because the Government wants it to happen, that just makes no sense.  They have a big deficit and horrendous long term debts and big promised future liabilities to an ageing population. Russell sits there and thinks they haven't thought about trying to get more money from the likes of him and Google.  

We put someone else in they face the same problems we have now.  How do we get money from corporations that operate globally, and how we get money from people who will always be welcome to pay lower taxes somewhere else.  

In fact I'd say your future revolution is going to have a struggle to keep us where we are now.  It really is inevitable that the NHS and the ageing population are not going to become less of a burden on the State.  If Governments are struggling to raise enough tax now, our future revolutionaries are going to need a bit more about them than this..  

I think you are taking individual points and using them discredit the overall argument when on a macro level he is largely right.  Firstly, As Tom pointed out equality isn't all about wealth it is about other things too.  Equality of opportunity is at least as important and so much that is being done by government for the last twenty years or so has served to undermine that.  For example, it is very likely if you come from a background like mine then in the future you will have to choose between a higher education and buying a house and starting a family before your late 30's because doing both are no longer affordable and both are due to government policies.  That isn't to say that you aren't right that politically we face huge challenges ahead.  An aging population and globalisation mean that we are going to have to be very creative in coming up with solutions but that doesn't mean that we can't make better decisions now on how to spend the tax revenues we have or more efficient in collecting those that are owed to us in the shorter term.  For example in 2010 HMRC effectively let Vodafone off £4.8bn in tax in negotiating a settlement.  Only this year the same company did a deal that would have seen them face a £12bn tax bill if it wasn't for a legislation change by labour in 2009 so whilst I agree that we face challenges in collecting taxes from global businesses we can at least collect those that are owed and, whilst we remain a major market and player globally we can use regulation to ensure that if they want to operate in our marketplace then they must pay the taxes which they are owed instead of changing legislation and doing backroom deals to reduce their liability.  These companies have to be sent a very firm message that if they want to benefit from the British marketplace then there are responsibilities that come with those benefits and they have to be responsible corporate citizens.

[Acidmouse]

The demographics of MPs is so acute is beyond thin. Libs are worst, how many black/Asian/gay/working class MPs do they have?

[AndrewT]

The demographics of MPs is so acute is beyond thin. Libs are worst, how many black/Asian/gay/working class MPs do they have?

Libs are going to be victims of small sample size.

[TightEnd]

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/russell-choosing-vote-most-british-kind-revolution-there

[Rexas]

I think we should ask luke schwartz what he thinks. Feels like paxman get so pwned its a joke. Pigeon.

[Royal Flush]

Brand part of the elite? interesting..

The government could do alot to stop tax loopholes and the rich getting away with murder, but then again that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas every week. Won't happen as long as most of the crones stay on as non-exec and execs in most of those firms it would effect.

If all MP's were not allowed other jobs outside government we might actually see independent no biased decision making. Barely a week goes by where some legislation or contract is not given out by the MPs where one of them does not benefit from the deal. The NHS is the worst, look at all the MPs who work for companies affiliated to contracts with the NHS, it is amazing.

The bed we lie in now was formed under Thatcher, left to fester under Labour and come home to roost under the Coalition.

So lets stop messing around and pay MP's properly, they should be on 250+ a year its a joke what they are paid.

[Woodsey]

Brand part of the elite? interesting..

The government could do alot to stop tax loopholes and the rich getting away with murder, but then again that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas every week. Won't happen as long as most of the crones stay on as non-exec and execs in most of those firms it would effect.

If all MP's were not allowed other jobs outside government we might actually see independent no biased decision making. Barely a week goes by where some legislation or contract is not given out by the MPs where one of them does not benefit from the deal. The NHS is the worst, look at all the MPs who work for companies affiliated to contracts with the NHS, it is amazing.

The bed we lie in now was formed under Thatcher, left to fester under Labour and come home to roost under the Coalition.

So lets stop messing around and pay MP's properly, they should be on 250+ a year its a joke what they are paid.

You can't pay them more than the prime minister   

[david3103]

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/russell-choosing-vote-most-british-kind-revolution-there

I think I love Robert Webb.

[Doobs]

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/russell-choosing-vote-most-british-kind-revolution-there

I think I love Robert Webb.

Ofc Robert Webb is much more coherent than Russell Brand.   Limiting bonuses to 50% of pay in a piece of legislation designed to reduce risks in the banking sector is an interesting discussion.  I don't think the answer is particularly obvious, and the knee jerk reaction may not show the greatest understanding of the topic.

[The Camel]

Brand part of the elite? interesting..

The government could do alot to stop tax loopholes and the rich getting away with murder, but then again that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas every week. Won't happen as long as most of the crones stay on as non-exec and execs in most of those firms it would effect.

If all MP's were not allowed other jobs outside government we might actually see independent no biased decision making. Barely a week goes by where some legislation or contract is not given out by the MPs where one of them does not benefit from the deal. The NHS is the worst, look at all the MPs who work for companies affiliated to contracts with the NHS, it is amazing.

The bed we lie in now was formed under Thatcher, left to fester under Labour and come home to roost under the Coalition.

So lets stop messing around and pay MP's properly, they should be on 250+ a year its a joke what they are paid.

Absolutely ridiculous that many of the civil servants who pretty much work for MPs/ministers are paid more than their bosses.

[david3103]

Brand part of the elite? interesting..

The government could do alot to stop tax loopholes and the rich getting away with murder, but then again that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas every week. Won't happen as long as most of the crones stay on as non-exec and execs in most of those firms it would effect.

If all MP's were not allowed other jobs outside government we might actually see independent no biased decision making. Barely a week goes by where some legislation or contract is not given out by the MPs where one of them does not benefit from the deal. The NHS is the worst, look at all the MPs who work for companies affiliated to contracts with the NHS, it is amazing.

The bed we lie in now was formed under Thatcher, left to fester under Labour and come home to roost under the Coalition.

So lets stop messing around and pay MP's properly, they should be on 250+ a year its a joke what they are paid.

Absolutely ridiculous that many of the civil servants who pretty much work for MPs/ministers are paid more than their bosses.

If you ban all outside interests all we'd get would be a continuum of career politicians with no experience of anything outside of their 2:1 in PPE from some ex-polytechnic in rural somewhere.
Doesn't matter much though since it's unworkable.
Far better is to actually have a higher level of scrutiny to identify areas where influence is being used inappropriately. Sadly the press and other media seems more interested in Britain's Strictly Factored Out of Here so stories of abuse of power and massive errors of judgement like the so-called Green Taxes which are pushing energy costs up.

The civil servants may get higher wages but a) they have to be attracted to their job whilst MPs make a choice to run and b) Civil Servants don't get the same expenses package which is exceptional even under the current regime.

Politicians choose to run for office.
We, the British public, choose our councillors and MPs (sadly we don't actually choose our MEPs).
Maybe we need to choose more wisely.

[millidonk]

...
Mr Brand is just another ranting fool, who doesn't really get real world economics.

This

Brand is intelligent but a lot of what he says is no more sophisticated than what you'd get from the average 6th former; it's argument based on looking at the flaws of a system and using big words to use them to denounce the system.

What it misses out are the positive aspects of the same system, any intelligently feasible alternative or way to 'fix' the current flaws - and if alternatives are suggested, the equally good/bad positive and negative aspects of such alternatives.

+1

He might as well have sat there with a T shirt on saying "There is a problem, but I don't have a clue how to fix it" because that's all he said. Give the guy a medal..

[edgascoigne]

...
Mr Brand is just another ranting fool, who doesn't really get real world economics.

This

Brand is intelligent but a lot of what he says is no more sophisticated than what you'd get from the average 6th former; it's argument based on looking at the flaws of a system and using big words to use them to denounce the system.

What it misses out are the positive aspects of the same system, any intelligently feasible alternative or way to 'fix' the current flaws - and if alternatives are suggested, the equally good/bad positive and negative aspects of such alternatives.

+1

He might as well have sat there with a T shirt on saying "There is a problem, but I don't have a clue how to fix it" because that's all he said. Give the guy a medal..

He says essentially nothing very well, and is undeniably quick witted. The problem of course is that he doesn't really have any content that justifies his verbosity.

[theprawnidentity]

He might as well have sat there with a T shirt on saying "There is a problem, but I don't have a clue how to fix it"

He actually said outright that he didn't know how to fix it, he just wanted to draw attention to the fact that there are people out with different ideas who are far more qualified to address the situation than he is.

[Acidmouse]

Brand part of the elite? interesting..

The government could do alot to stop tax loopholes and the rich getting away with murder, but then again that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas every week. Won't happen as long as most of the crones stay on as non-exec and execs in most of those firms it would effect.

If all MP's were not allowed other jobs outside government we might actually see independent no biased decision making. Barely a week goes by where some legislation or contract is not given out by the MPs where one of them does not benefit from the deal. The NHS is the worst, look at all the MPs who work for companies affiliated to contracts with the NHS, it is amazing.

The bed we lie in now was formed under Thatcher, left to fester under Labour and come home to roost under the Coalition.

So lets stop messing around and pay MP's properly, they should be on 250+ a year its a joke what they are paid.

Absolutely ridiculous that many of the civil servants who pretty much work for MPs/ministers are paid more than their bosses.

If you ban all outside interests all we'd get would be a continuum of career politicians with no experience of anything outside of their 2:1 in PPE from some ex-polytechnic in rural somewhere.
Doesn't matter much though since it's unworkable.
Far better is to actually have a higher level of scrutiny to identify areas where influence is being used inappropriately. Sadly the press and other media seems more interested in Britain's Strictly Factored Out of Here so stories of abuse of power and massive errors of judgement like the so-called Green Taxes which are pushing energy costs up.

The civil servants may get higher wages but a) they have to be attracted to their job whilst MPs make a choice to run and b) Civil Servants don't get the same expenses package which is exceptional even under the current regime.

Politicians choose to run for office.
We, the British public, choose our councillors and MPs (sadly we don't actually choose our MEPs).
Maybe we need to choose more wisely.

You are assuming that prospective MP's are fresh out of Uni, I would have thought a more reasonable assumption is they have formed a career and see politics as there next career, generally new MPs are in their mid 30's and have already experienced real jobs in the real world. Making them only be MP's would not change this.

People shouting that MPs are low paid, R O F L, I have NEVER know any other job where everything from a second home, to someone cutting their grass, heating bills, all travel expenses are paid for them. Free food at work and virtually everything they needed is given to them. What other job literally means they have all their income to spend on themselves apart from MPs? I noticed one MP claimed 3p for a 100 yard car ride.....you know people actually saying they need to be paid more? do me a favor.

If they want to be an MP let them take a break from all other interests that may conflict with running the country. It's ridiculous they can have 3-4 other jobs and still claim they are underpaid as MP's and have the peoples interest at heart.

Education or a 2:1 from an old Poly means shit to me, as long as the MP is good at what they do, looks after the consistuancy interests and puts their heart and soul into it then you can have left school at 15 for all that is matters. The problem is coming from a 'certain' elite Uni seems important for a route into politics, welcome to the boys club. I would have thought much more worrying than your "dooms day mps only have one job scenerio attracting the wrong type of people" is the current regime only coming from millionaire backgrounds where a heating bill makes up 0000.00000002% of their income and they somehow have to relate to us normal peoples problems.