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| | |-+  Do we need ANTES in DTD's £15 to £50 Evening Comps (30 min clocks or less)?
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Poll
Question: Should there be Antes in 1 Day £15-£50 comps?
No Antes - 59 (45.7%)
Yes - Keep Antes - 65 (50.4%)
Dont Care or Dont know - 5 (3.9%)
Total Voters: 128

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Author Topic: Do we need ANTES in DTD's £15 to £50 Evening Comps (30 min clocks or less)?  (Read 24385 times)
nirvana
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2013, 11:58:57 PM »

Played a comp without antes recently - turgid affair near the last 2 tables - keep them please

Any more turgid that a normal evening comp though, everyone I have played on the Genting Tour has down to 10BB average, sometimes 5BB during final WITH antes

Hard to judge really between the overall reality and the way it made me feel personally - I know I didn't like it which may get in the way of a reasoned judgement
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T8MML
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2013, 12:13:16 AM »

FWIW we talked about this at length awhile back and the consensus was you need them but in short clock comps the big blind should pay the antes for all to keep the game flowing

I have heard that suggested in ante cash games before.

Why do you need antes in a comp with this common scenario though? Both Toby and Simon believe that antes are purely 'cosmetic' in these turbo formats and they spend their lives analysing structures etc. Lets say the clock is 20 mins, the average BB is 15, level is 2000-4000, next level is 3000-6000 (2500-5000 missing) - what is the benefit of everyone posting at 400 ante, there is a 50% jump in blinds coming............you gotta play!

Cheers Rob


As I rarely play with a stack above 10bb I would have to welcome such a move Rob Smiley

Tim
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George2Loose
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2013, 12:13:49 AM »

U deffo need antes. Pls pls pls don't take them out
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Simon Galloway
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2013, 12:14:09 AM »

Not playing much poker nowadays is always going to weaken the validity of anything I put forward Smiley  If players genuinely aren't making any adjustments for antes then either a lot of players are making a pretty big mistake, or the antes are not set at the correct level.

I have played a few where the antes have been 25 at 300/600 ... this is cosmetic and makes little difference.  The antes should be ~ 1 BB in total... so at 300/600 antes should be 50 or even 75.  It would be hard for someone to not adjust to that as it makes a pretty big difference to how long people can sit there nursing short stacks.
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2013, 12:14:46 AM »

I think antes are good for building bigger pots and rewarding more aggressive players so I like them from that point.

However they actually mean you get less hands per level as it wastes time collecting them.

My suggestion: get the button to post everyones ante as it's faster. So each round of the table you will pay 1BB, 1SB and 1 lot of Antes for the whole table.


[Edit] my bad, just noticed T8MML suggested BB pays them.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 12:21:17 AM by Fluence » Logged
Luke Barradell
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 12:22:15 AM »

Why not introduce antes at a later stage or make them smaller for longer, so the dynamic of having an ante is still there but not having such a big effect on shorter stacked players.
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Ironside
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 12:51:12 AM »

for my own personal view dbl the antes and add an extra 5 minutes too the clock
you will find the game is sped up but there is more play and will finish around same time
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Boba Fett
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 02:12:54 AM »

intro them as early as possible however I think dealers in general spend too long pulling in antes.

It promotes/rewards aggressive play (or at least should) which will help players become more well rounded overall. In smaller 1 day comps you can probably have an aggressive ante as well like 50/100/25 an 100/200/50 etc
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2013, 02:24:45 AM »

Players starting out don't want to learn aggressive play tho.  They want to see cheap flops.

Think it's a good idea.  Maybe keep the 50s with antes tho.

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robyong
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2013, 03:22:09 AM »

intro them as early as possible however I think dealers in general spend too long pulling in antes.

It promotes/rewards aggressive play (or at least should) which will help players become more well rounded overall. In smaller 1 day comps you can probably have an aggressive ante as well like 50/100/25 an 100/200/50 etc

The other extreme and would force players to adjust and I can see the merits - but there are only many hands you can deal within 20 mins.

What's best for recreational and novice players is what ALL the poker community should be considering in this tough stagnant market and feedback relative to those players would be helpful. What's the best experience for THEM, there £15-£50 comps are where the grass roots of poker stats for many, and we need them to have the best experience and get hooked on the game.

I started off on re-buys with no antes as did so many others.

Thx for all feedback so far, As well as opinion on here, which is almost split 50:50, I have asked Nicola to contact all XXL 15 XXl 25 and Super 50 players living within 60 miles of DTD to get their vote/opinion, there are our regular evening/1 day players - so lets see what they think as a group of players.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 05:00:42 AM by robyong » Logged
Rexas
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2013, 05:18:33 AM »

I completely agree with Rob that there a very few players that make the correct adjustments to their play style to factor in antes, so I don't think this should really be considered. I honestly quite like the idea of trialing the idea of no antes in the 25's, and keeping them for the 50's. This keeps the 25 a little simpler for beginners, be they dealers or players. From my experience, a lack of antes does make things faster, simpler and easier, and doesn't really effect the finishing time because tbh people still play the same way, and the average stacks still end up being about the same.
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 05:22:39 AM »

The only ante level I would do away with is 75.

Just takes bloody ages sorting out change etc

Try

150-300/25
200-400/25
300-600/50
400-800/50
600-1200/100

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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 07:32:58 AM »

Voted to keep them.

Can you issue dealers with sharp sticks to prod those who don't post them quickly enough? Cheesy
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teamonkey
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 07:57:04 AM »

I think Pleno has made a valid point, players need to understand the game, how it plays, and what their responsibilities are, and even though it is one of my pet hates that there is always someone who needs constantly asking by the dealer to post his ante (no matter what the buy level) if we can people doing this from their poker early years, then perhaps they would have it fixed in their heads and doing it without being asked.

I only tend to play £50+/30 min lvl buy ins so dont have the experience to say how it will effect shorter blinds level games, but that is due to living where i do, if i lived closer i'd be in a lot more often (just dont tell the wife i said so)

Also liked the suggestion to keep the ante at an easy number, ie 25,50,100,200 etc and ignore the 75 as quite frequently there is a shortage of change esp if you have someone running over the table

Mick
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david3103
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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2013, 08:39:04 AM »

My immediate reaction to the question was that antes should be kept.
Then I read that Rob thinks they are unnecessary and that Simon and Toby agree and now I'm thinking who am I to gainsay those three?
I play these comps so rarely that it feels inappropriate to vote on their structure but why not try a few nights without them and see how it goes?
All one night tournaments eventually end up at average stack<10BB with or without antes anyway.

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